Well that last bastion of "unbiased" reporting - Adrenaline Vault - has just posted their Max Payne review and awarded it a "Seal Of Excellence".

Some noteable quotes from the words of Josh Horowitz :

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Interactive environments mean that players can literally destroy a room and its objects with gunfire and explosions, causing pictures to fall off the wall, bottles to smash, and televisions to explode. I was pleased to see an extra level of detail on certain objects, such as water coolers that spring leaks when shot, damaged fire extinguishers that wildly spray foam, and bullet-riddled briefcases of money with bills floating around the room. I also found the characters to be well rendered, taking advantage of a face-wrapping technology that keeps many nuances of their expressions intact.

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I enjoyed the cinematic shots during the actual fighting, and was truly impressed with the innovative dream sequences depicting long hazy hallways and bloody falling snow. One of the most jaw-dropping action sequences involves Max's escape from a restaurant that begins to spontaneously burst into flames. The flame animations are gorgeous, the lighting is intense, and the explosion animations are quite something to behold.

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As an action title borrowing elements from popular sources, Max Payne employs several instances of in-jokes that some players will be quick to recognize. There are a bunch of spoken and visual references to John Woo, Chow Yun Fat, The Professional, The Killer, and even Reservoir Dogs. Like in the spy game No One Lives Forever, some of the guards will talk among themselves while waiting for you to show up, quipping about action films, favorite actors, and even discussing the concept of Bullet-Time in length.

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The title character tackles the hard-boiled dialogue during the graphic novel convincingly, and some of the voice acting (especially by Max's doomed wife) is chillingly realistic. The enemy characters are also handled with bravado, though, I thought that some of the actors' voices seemed somewhat inappropriate for certain characters.

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Max Payne is one of those memorable titles that people will be talking about for years to come. Its impressive graphics, gripping storyline, and fun use of Bullet-Time action elevates the game to the current standard that most others should aspire to. While it would have been great to see a multiplayer component to accompany the single-player action, the single-player is handled nicely, with no sacrifices made that would lower the overall quality. As one of the last products to come out of the respected Gathering of Developers, Max Payne is a quality release that marks the end of an era, and serves as a benchmark for great games to come.

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They gave it a 4.5/5? I'd give it a 4/5. It's pretty good, but there are plenty of irritations. And the dream sequences and the restaurant scene are among the irritations.

"As one of the last products to come out of the respected Gathering of Developers, Max Payne is a quality release that marks the end of an era, and serves as a benchmark for great games to come."

Uh, this is way over the top.

"To anyone who has actually played the game is it this good ?"

No, not THAT good, but still pretty good. I too said, "What? He's praising the dream sequences?" This is just plain wrong. Even the first time through, they're a pain in the ass.

I'm playing through the English version and am beginning to see where you guys are coming from about the writing. This may be the first time in the history of video games that a translation (French in this case) is better than the original.

DeanCo--

Before I slam it, I really really liked Max Payne and can't wait for the user made levels to start coming out so I can enjoy it some more. Now..

Honestly, if the PC was a rich, and live platform like it was in the mid 90s, a game like Max Payne wouldn't have gotten much notice. The fact is, this year has sucked as far as computer gaming is concerned and Max Payne is the best thing to come out so far and looking towards the fall, nothing is likely to challenge it. At lest in far as an action game.

Next the game IS short. I am paralyzed on right side and I play virtually all games with a five-button Microsoft optical mouse. I can use my right hand to hit the space bar and that�s it. If I have to hit anything else I have to take my left hand off the mouse to press a key. The reason why I tell you this is so you realize that I�m not an elite quake player who games 20 hours a day and has no life. Yes I�m 32 years old and have been playing video games since I was 4 but I�m not a gaming god. It took me just over 6 hours to complete Max Payne. The hardest part was the rigged elevator. The AI is extremely easy to fool. Just step on the �area of AI awareness�, back up, and kill all enemies as they rush through the door one by one. The bosses make it do you can�t do that but ultimately nothing the game throws at you is any harder than the Marines from Half Life.

Bullet Time is a joke. While it�s a neat effect, it doesn�t add anything to combat or make it easier. The game wants you to believe you�ll be able to jump in a room full of bad guys and kill them like you are in the Matrix. The truth is when you go into bullet time, the enemies are just as hard, maybe even harder to kill and you are setting yourself up as an easy target.

Oh and one last peeve, �Comic Book art� is more than taking a picture and applying a couple of photoshop filters.

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Honestly, if the PC was a rich, and live platform like it was in the mid 90s, a game like Max Payne wouldn't have gotten much notice. The fact is, this year has sucked as far as computer gaming is concerned and Max Payne is the best thing to come out so far and looking towards the fall, nothing is likely to challenge it. At lest in far as an action game.

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"Have you been following the games coming this Fall? As far as I'm aware we're getting Medal of Honor: Allied Assault which looks absolutely fantastic, Duke Nukem Forever which has to be finished this year (10/29 is the date at EB World) and likely will not suck as well as Return to Castle Wolfenstein."

Dave are you mad???? These games will never come out, and even if they do they will suck. And if they do come out, and they are wonderful, then there will be a reason to say this has been a good year. Until then, I'm with agreeing with Mr Merritt. My favorite games have either been 00 releases, expansions on 00 releases, or have been 01 releases that didn't suck so much as just didn't work (WW2OL for example).

>They gave it a 4.5/5? I'd give it a 4/5. It's pretty good, but there are plenty of irritations.

Funny, that's exactly what I gave it. I think the review comes up in next month's issue. Thought I mostly liked the dream sequences (the second "blank empty room" bit was too much). But yes, it's a good game with some irritations.

>Uh, this is way over the top.

We should expect nothing less from a Site of Substance (tm). ;)

"Max Payne is the best thing to come out so far and looking towards the fall, nothing is likely to challenge it. At lest in far as an action game."

You're kidding, right? The summer's been slow, but there have been at least a few phenomenally good games this year already (Kohan, Diablo II expansion, Arcanum), and there's some good-looking stuff coming (including action games):

Operation Flashpoint
Independence War 2
Civilization III
Pool of Radiance 2
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Aliens vs. Predator 2
Dungeon Siege
Morrowind
Neverwinter Nights (maybe)
The Skittles game

...and so on. Are you honestly not interested in any of these?

Ben, look at my words. I said "so far" as in, "those games which have been released this year" The games you listed aren't out yet and a few are likely to come out this year.

"Bullet Time is a joke. While it�s a neat effect, it doesn�t add anything to combat or make it easier. The game wants you to believe you�ll be able to jump in a room full of bad guys and kill them like you are in the Matrix. The truth is when you go into bullet time, the enemies are just as hard, maybe even harder to kill and you are setting yourself up as an easy target."

???

Maybe it's just me, but I sorta agree about Bullet Time. I like it, and I think it does make some combats easier, but often I find that I'm just as easily hit while in BT as out of it.

Shootdodging becomes less and less useful as you progress in the game, because once you're done diving or rolling (having killed one guy), another guy pops out and caps you while you can't retaliate.

Regular bullet-time is still very useful -- turn it on just before you step out from behind a corner, and just side strafe (you _will_ dodge bullets) while you blast the bad guys.

Agreed. The regular BT works REALLY well. I could take out guys really fast and easy since I could aim at the head mostly.

As for the shootdodging... I found that it was a skill that you really had to learn to get better at it. By the end of Max Payne I was pretty invincable. I could litterally run into a room chucked full of baddies and take them all out and most of the time I didn't use Bullet time.

Also.. Here is a hint.. Near the end of the game ALWAYS use bullet time when you enter a room or turn a corner, because a baddie is almost ALWAYS there waiting for you.

Jeff

Hell, I stopped playing in the trapped elevator level. I might finish one day, but I got so frustrated with playing that bit over and over...

"Near the end of the game ALWAYS use bullet time when you enter a room or turn a corner, because a baddie is almost ALWAYS there waiting for you."

The Shogo School of level design. I considered this a big problem, but the reviews haven't mentioned it so far. On the other hand, it can be fun the first few times to shootdodge through a door and shotgun the guy waiting.

Some areas, the enemy layout was great. I liked the duel-like nature of the part with the grenade-launcher-armed guards in the skyscraper. The part with the guard towers and the sniper rifles was fun, too.

"Ben, look at my words. I said "so far" as in, "those games which have been released this year" The games you listed aren't out yet and a few are likely to come out this year."

All of the games I listed, with the possible exception of Neverwinter Nights (as I noted), will most likely come out this year. Several of them (Operation Flashpoint, I-War 2) are already out. Pool 2 is set to go gold in about a week. Civ III will be gold before the end of September. The rest of the games are slated for October/November.

"Hell, I stopped playing in the trapped elevator level. I might finish one day, but I got so frustrated with playing that bit over and over..."

You can use bullet time for this too.

Er, Dungeon Siege has already slipped to next year, Ben, and I'd be surprised if Morrowind makes it out this year as well.

The term "Bullet Time" just makes me think that the Coors Light folks are trying to rip of Miller.
"What time is it?"
"It's bullet time!"

yeah. I'm probably the only person who's even had that thought... and the only person who hasn't played Max Payne yet.

"rip off" rather.

The best non-expansion game this year, in my mind, is Operation Flashpoint. It rocks. I played a lot of Kohan, but after awhile I got sick of how ugly it looks and stopped playing (I hope those guys get a great budget for Kohan 2). Neither DS or NWN will be out this year. I have no interest in IWar2, and of the other games I would guess NONE of them will come out:

Civ 3? Yeah right.
Morrowind? Puh-leeze.
Wolfenstein. At least 6 more months of hype.
P of R 2? Ok, maybe it will come out Dec 30.
AvP2: this could come out.

In my totally novice opinion, I gotta say this had to be a terrible year of new games (not including expansions).

>Operation Flashpoint
>Independence War 2
Great game.

>Civilization III
Apparently on schedule for this year, which is surprising.

>Pool of Radiance 2
Really looking forward to playing it, but am concerned about its development history.

>Dungeon Siege
This was officially moved to 2002 last week.

>Morrowind
Bethesda keeps stating it'll make it, but I'm skeptical.

>Neverwinter Nights (maybe)
This game has no chance of being released this year. Probably next June.

Stefan

Mark: you're right about Dungeon Siege. I forgot about that getting pushed back.

Stefan: I agree that NWN will most likely not make this year (BioWare has said as much), though it may not be as far into 2002 as you think.

"Civ 3? Yeah right."

According to Infogrames, the game is pretty much done. They emailed me yesterday about the possibility of getting the review into our December issue.

"Morrowind? Puh-leeze."

Maybe. It's scheduled for this year, at any rate.

"Wolfenstein. At least 6 more months of hype."

I'll be really, really surprised if it misses Christmas. I saw the game, and talked to the Gray Matter guys at E3, and it looked almost finished there. I'd bet on late October/early November.

"P of R 2? Ok, maybe it will come out Dec 30."

According to UbiSoft, we will have a review copy next week. When they start talking that specific, it's usually true.

"AvP2: this could come out."

It almost certainly will. Monolith was saying that the game was "pretty much done" in July. I'm guessing it will be in stores in October.

There are some other potentially good games that should be out this year:

Disciples 2
Freedom Force
Stronghold
Dark Age of Camelot (for mmorpg fans)
Battle Realms
Sid's Golf game

I think we're kind of skirting around the issue here. I think you guys would know better than most: will this be a good/bad/ugly year for new games?

I think it's been a good year already. A few games really stand out in my mind as memorable: Tropico, Black & White (despite its flaws), Serious Sam, and the handful of great expansions we've seen...

I never used bullet time alone in Max Payne 2x through. I used shoot-dodge exclusively. And to this guy:

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Bullet Time is a joke. While it�s a neat effect, it doesn�t add anything to combat or make it easier. The game wants you to believe you�ll be able to jump in a room full of bad guys and kill them like you are in the Matrix. The truth is when you go into bullet time, the enemies are just as hard, maybe even harder to kill and you are setting yourself up as an easy target.

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Will it be a good year for games? I dunno, ask me on January 1. By the same token, I think it's way too early to declare it a disaster.

Seriously, there's some really promising stuff coming out, and a few things already that I've really liked (especially Kohan and Arcanum). I forgot about Stronghold--not sure why, since I'm totally into that kind of game. The last beta I played was pretty entertaining, if a bit rough (it was a while ago). Freedom Force, too--that game is looking better all the time.

What about Medal of Honor?

"What about Medal of Honor?"

MOH has slipped to next year.

Wow, lots of big game slippage:

NWN
MOH
Warcraft III
Dungeon Siege
HOMM4

I think I'm most disappointed that both NWN and Dungeon Siege slipped. I was hoping we'd get one this year.

Oh, one more cool game that may be out this year: Sigma.

My bet? Sigma slips. My reason? The hype index is way low. Usually games have to be running ads in the game magazines for 12-18 months before release, and each magazine has to do a minimum of 4 special previews before release. Sigma is way down on this.

Seriously, I'm hoping Freedom Force turns this year around. The idea is fairly fresh, and those who've seen the early stuff seem to be impressed. I gotta cross my fingers for something. Oh wait, Destroyer Command!

Rob you are dead wrong! This year has been one of the better years for PC gaming. Three great games immediately come to my mind that were released this year:
1. Black and White
2. Tribes 2
3. Serious Sam

Right there are three title's that I have enjoyed and played over an over.

Also other titles that have been released this year so far:
1. Tropico
2. Diablo, baldur's gate and sim expansion's
3. fallout tactics
4. Commandos 2 (which I hear is very good)
5. Clive barkers Undying
6. Operation flashpoint
7. Nascar 4
8. Mech Commander 2

Plus for Christmas we should have:
1. Castle Wolfenstein
2. Red faction
3. Alien vs. Predator (which I played and the demo was very good)

Plus half decent titles this year were:
1. Blade of darkness (playin demo now and seems cool)
2. Oni

Plus early next year:
1. Unreal 2
2. Planetside (which no one has mentioned)
3. Age of mythology
4. Dungeon Siege
5. SOF 2 (maybe)
6. Metal of honor

And there are other titles that I haven't even mentioned.

I've only been into PC gaming for a little over 2 years so I don't know what the mid 90's were like for you guys then. All I know is that this year has been great and next year will be even better for us PC gamers!

Hey Ben, I realize this is all very subjective, but I disagree with you. And to be clear, I'm only talking about this year, and I'm not including expansions (which I think have been very good). Its just arbitrary, but whatever.

Black and White was good for a day. Thats it. A day. It blew after one day.

Don't you need a Main Frame to run Tribes 2? Like the one in War Games? Or maybe Hal 9000?

Serious Sam, from what I understand is just more Doom.

1. Tropico = Roller Coaster Tycoon is more fun.
3. fallout tactics = the reaction on this board has been pretty negative (sorry Jhansdorf)
4. Commandos 2 = not released yet? I'm looking forward to it, but...
5. Clive barkers Undying = did anyone play this?
6. Operation flashpoint = OK! I love this one.
7. Nascar 4 = I can't comment, I play these types on console only.
8. Mech Commander 2 = My jury's out here, but I'm hopeful.


Call me crazy, but I'm pretty underwhelmed by the new New games this year. Give me Sacrifice or give me death! Bring me my Combat Mission!

>>>Don't you need a Main Frame to run Tribes 2? Like the one in War Games? Or maybe Hal 9000?


Why do people always say this? I played it on my PII 400 with a TNT - it ran fine and was fun. I think alot of people missed out on a great game because they bought the anti-hype.

A good way to see if something is true. Go to evilavatar. If he says it is true - it isn't. Pretty simple.

Chet

Well, I think it's been a pretty good year, and am optimistic about what's to come. (Though I always thought that BioWare was crazy for EVER thinking that NWN would make it out this year.)

But, then, what the heck do I know?

Hey Rob, not to nitpick, but you apparently haven't played too many of the games released this year judging by your posts in this thread. Before you condemn all the releases, wouldn't it be wise to at least play the demos?

If you hadn't tried Operation: Flashpoint and you saw five people on a message board ranting about how lousy it is or how it doesn't "do it" for them, would you still hold the opinion of it you do now?

--Dave

Dave, I've played a fair amount of games this year, but not all that many. Much of my above ranting is based on what I read here on this board, or in Mark's and Tom's reviews (see the updated Tribes 2 review for instance).

As for demos, I have a high speed connection, so I actually do play a lot of demos. But I would be hesitant to base a real opinion on a game from the demo. Case in point: Throne of Darkness. On the website, the designers basically go on and on about why the demo isn't very fun because its such an early build and a lot of stuff isn't implemented or doesn't work right. Have you played it? Its nearly impossible to get your guy to actually hit a bad guy. Your npcs get all the kills while you run about willy nilly. The demo wasn't fun, but I'm not going to judge the game on the demo, because it isn't a decent portrayal. Demos give a flavor, but I don't think anyone wants to sign off on a game after playing the demo.

I know I'm coming off as the pessimistic gamer here. I won't deny that I'm not that good a judge based on the fact that I only play 10-15 games a year. The people who are most capable of saying whether up to this point, and barring the expansions, the year has been a gaming bust are the reviewers. And they have been strangely silent on this topic...

"Usually games have to be running ads in the game magazines for 12-18 months before release"

That's not an ideal situation for publishers, i.e. they don't WANT to do that. It's actually a lot more effective to start your marketing push only 3-6 months before launch, so that the game is still fresh in people's minds when it hits store shelves. Running big ad campaigns a years or more in advance is costly, and not very effective.

When it does happen, it's usually because the development hits snags. Marketing starts the ad campaign several months before the projected release, but then the release gets pushed back another six months. They stop running ads, and launch a new campaign a few months before the new date. Then the game gets pushed back again... rinse, repeat.

"Clive barkers Undying = did anyone play this?"

I did. It was a really entertaining game. If you are looking for a good action game, you may want to check it out. I enjoyed it more than I enjoyed Max Payne, actually.

"(Though I always thought that BioWare was crazy for EVER thinking that NWN would make it out this year.)"

I don't think they ever promised that. When I flew out there to see the game in March, the most they would commit to is "we'd LIKE to get it out by Christmas, but that's not very likely."

So far, I think it's been a slow year for games, but many of the games that have made it out thus far have been really good. So it kind of balances out.

There's nothing wrong with playing only 10-15 games per year, but I think it's hard to judge an entire half year's releases if you really haven't played many of these games.

I'm a reviewer too and frankly, I think it's been pretty good so far. No worse than last year for sure. Ben Sones is the guy I send my reviews to...he's editor of all reviews at CGM. He's saying he thinks it's been pretty good so far and to expect more. How can that be denied?

Mark and Tom do a great job reviewing games. I often agree with Tom and less often with Mark based on tastes. But Tom has noted a number of good games so far this year by giving them good reviews. Starships Unlimited for example...a game that literally outdoes most commercial releases if not all of them in the space 4X strategy genre. Tom gave that 4 1/2 stars in CGM. Of the things I reviewed this year, NASCAR Racing 4 was a very good sim. The Moon Project is a good RTS game if you don't already own Earth 2150. Other stuff I played and enjoyed (but did not review) includes the aforementioned Kohan and Tropico.

As for demos...if the demo is not indicative of the game, why is it out there? I have no sympathy for developers that claim AFTER the demo is available that it's not indicative of the game. If that's the case, they screwed up. Most times when they give this excuse, the game ends up being exactly like the demo and they're simply hoping you'll believe them and still throw down the cash. Pre-release bad press from a demo can destroy sales performance with the hardcore. As Chet notes, the bad word of mouth on Tribes 2 kept you from buying or even trying it...

Sometimes I think the perception of an entire year's PC games (or console too) can be based on a few high profile titles not living up to hype. Black and White is literally the first game people think of when they say how PC gaming has sucked this year. Check your post, it's even your first noted example. Well, because of that one high profile marginal game, there's a perception of a poor release year. Throw in Tribes 2 and now it's a horrible year. I just have to disagree with that assessment.

--Dave

Dave, good post. Don't get me wrong, I'm still playing a few of the games that came out this year, WW2OL and Flashpoint. I'm generally a glass-half-full guy, but I'm a tad fed up with the gaming industry (pushed back release dates and buggy games). Maybe I'm letting that color my assessment of 2001. I'm gonna lock myself in with BGII for a few months, and then come up for air near Christmas. Maybe then we can rehash this conversation after all the releases are out.

Until then me and Minsc and Boo will be burning trolls.

"He's saying he thinks it's been pretty good so far and to expect more. How can that be denied?"

Yeah! Never deny my wisdom! Mhuahahahahahaha!

Seriously, my opinion is just that, and it's about as valid as anyone else's. I do think we've at at least a few really great games so far, though, and the stuff that's likely to come out before year's end looks promising.

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I'm gonna lock myself in with BGII for a few months, and then come up for air near Christmas. Maybe then we can rehash this conversation after all the releases are out.

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I admire you're naivette...oops, I mean optimism (hehe). The only game I'm looking forward to, and actually think it might, MIGHT, come out is Battle Realms. I think there might be a hidden gem out there somewhere too.

"Duke Nukem Forever will make it. It has to."

Yeah. I'm guessing that Take 2 will (or already has) delivered the ultimatum. It'll be out before Christmas, ready or not. Most of the rest of that stuff will come out, too (and CivIII and Pool 2 definitely will).

I just got a press release from Strategy First stating that they're pushing back the release of Disciples 2 and O.R.B. to 2002.

Chet wrote:

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A good way to see if something is true. Go to evilavatar. If he says it is true - it isn't. Pretty simple.

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You were right, Rob... my optimism seems to have gotten the better of me.

Duke Nukem Forever NOT a 2001 game

Just how much fucking money does 3D Realms/Scott Miller/George Broussard have?!?! I can't figure out how they pay the bills at that place with no releases. Was Apogee really that profitable or is it all these console releases allowing them to make payroll?

--Dave

That is the console version of the game they are talking about. Note that they very specifically make no reference to the PC version.

That doesn't mean that it won't also miss this year, of course. But I don't think it will.

Are you sure about that, Ben? It sounds like they announced that it's coming to Xbox and PS2 as well as Gamecube but the primary version is delayed as well. It notes that the Gamecube version was "not mentioned" in the call.

The way I read it, the PC version is delayed and these other versions are all coming along afterward.

--Dave

Hmmm...the whole thing is vague... I checked the original story at Gamespot and they're just as non-commital about what it is they're talking about...either console or PC? Someone get Scott Miller or Broussard on the phone.

--Dave

>I think you guys would know better than most: will this be a good/bad/ugly year for new games?

This will be a year that, like every other year, has some good games and bad games. Many of the good games will be things we weren't necessarily anticipating (Kohan, Op Flashpoint), and many of the bad games will be things we were.

But at the end of it, "the gamers" will talk about what a weak year it was, and how great next year will be because all the good games that were supposed to be out this year have been pushed back into next.

You know, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before that...

I don't think the overall quality/quantity is changing nearly as much as our scrutiny of it, and perception.

Quote:

"As one of the last products to come out of the respected Gathering of Developers, Max Payne is a quality release that marks the end of an era, and serves as a benchmark for great games to come."

Over the top is right. Check out Old Man Murray for the extra-lotion backrubs between the principals of Avault and g.o.d. It's hilarious. The lack of integrity, however, is not.

Jason_cross: "But at the end of it, "the gamers" will talk about what a weak year it was, and how great next year will be because all the good games that were supposed to be out this year have been pushed back into next. You know, just like last year, and the year before, and the year before that... "

Honestly no. From 1989 till 98 every year was a great year with the next year being better than the last. 98 being the PC at its prime. Since then its been one crap fest after another and we hope that the next year will be better when in fact we know it will not. I feel that the PC as a gaming platform day has past.

Dave Long: I asked Gerge about that and the truth is, the console Duke Nukems make quite a bit of money and more than paid for Duke Nukem Forever's development. So they still got money coming in.

I wonder, Rob, if you (and many gamers) feel that way because they're jaded, and remember the good 'ol days when games were better? I wonder if the 17-yr old kid who has been really playing PC games for about four or five years doesn't feel like it keeps getting better, and in five years he'll say "2002 was PC gaming at its prime, and it's gone downhill from there."

I see a lot of that happen in other industries, where respected and knowledgable, but "veteran" movie or music journalists (and fans, for that matter) think it's all crap lately and was so much better back in the day. But a new generation comes along and thinks the same thing, displaced a few years.

I don't have a real answer. It's all opinion, and as the fine movie High Fidelity said, "How can a stating a PREFERENCE be WRONG?!" =)

But I honestly think this year has been okay, not great, and will be Just Fine by Dec 31st. Maybe a touch on the weak side, but that's typical of the years surrounding the new generation of consoles, I think. Publisher budgets and all that jazz.

Or are we counting consoles, too? If that's the case, I think it'll be a GREAT year for gaming. Lots of good console stuff this year.