Saw the news blurb about this. In particular...

"That's a question for gamers need answering. If we install a new videocard or CPU, will XP still work?"

Okay, I thought I'd give the run-down on the Product Activation thing. Here's the deal as I understand it, from talking with MS and a few experts:

1. It's not registration--that's still seperate. You don't need to give your name, address, email, phone number, or any other personal info to activate WinXP.

2. It doesn't tell MS what hardware you have. It just takes a hash of the ID numbers on some of the hardware components you have--since it's a hash, it's a unique number, but it doesn't say what the actual hardware IS (or who owns that machine). It forms a unique number FROM your hardware setup, but doesn't send all the ID numbers or anything like that.

3. Once you've activated, your copy of WinXP is activated for good. You can change hardware around five hundred thousand times if you want. It's not going to stop working, because it's already been activated and it's not checking anymore. Changing your hardware would only matter if you re-install Windows (and thus have to re-activate). If your hardware hasn't changed at all, you can re-install using the same activation code, supposedly.

4. What if you change your components and have to re-install? Or your machine crashes after buying a new hard drive and video card? As long as you don't give out your CD key, you should be fine. MS says the activation server will only stop validating copies of XP after that CD key has been used to try to activate with lots of different configurations--probably 100 or more. You'd have to reinstall Windows a LOT, changing the hardware each time, to flag the activation server. Or give your CD key out to a friend, who tells a friend, and so on until a bunch of people use it. Then one day when you try to reinstall with some new hardware in there, the activation server says your CD is invalid.

That's the idea--to keep you from copying that CD key. People will have to buy their own copy of Win XP to get their own unique CD key or risk installing to find out that the key is invalid.

And if you're a super hardcore hardware type guy that is constantly changing your machine and reinstalling, like to test hardware, you probably just won't ever have to register. You have 30 days to use it before registering, after all.

Yes, it does appear you can just nuke Win XP and reinstall every 30 days or less to avoid activation. If that sounds more convienent to you. =)

This won't stop the warez guys--there will be a hack to activate WinXP within two weeks I bet (probably less). The corporate site-license versions for places with 100 machines won't have activation, either, so they'll just warez that.

It's supposed to only be to prevent causal copying--I make a copy and give the CD key to my friend. If I do that, he can probably install fine. But I'm not safe--if he gives out the number to HIS friend, and so on, I could reinstall to find out it won't activate one day.

BTW, the scheme also appears that it won't stop the guy who buys one copy for his two computers at home.

Something tells me I'm going to be running 98 or maybe Me (one day) for a long, long time.

Probably with a Roberto Benigni screensaver, too.

Nah, just the usual. One showing a Y-Wing destroying an X-Wing.

-Andrew

"One showing a Y-Wing destroying an X-Wing. "

Cool! Y-Wing was always my favorite (kinda the A-10 to the X-Wing's F-14/F-15/F-16/FA-18...)

Hey Scott!
Here's some background and that topic:
Someone and I a couple years ago went back and forth about whether the Y or X-Wing were better in a 1v1 XvT battle.

I used to run with a TIE & Y squadron (Y-Wings for armor and TIEs to keep people off the Y's backs) and I found the Y to be vastly superior in the initial pass because of the blaster/Ion mix you could unleash.

Wumpus here called it the "geekiest thread ever", but that's because he's not counting his own Kohan posts.

(My real PC background is actually my daughter's Ultrasound picture)

-Andrew

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Something tells me I'm going to be running 98 or maybe Me (one day) for a long, long time.

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>The truth is this only affects dishonest people.

For the most part, yeah. And it doesn't even affect all of them (warez folks will have an easy way around it in no time).

It's about a 10-second invonvience tacked on to installing Windows XP, ultimately. MS is not spying on people, they're not tracking usage, they're not continually checking your XP install to make sure it's legit. It's just a scheme to make it dangerous to give out your CD key.

Is it another inconvienance? Sure. It's another example of how software piracy actually hurts honest users, not just the pocketbooks of software publishers. Just like when that CD with a strange copy protection scheme doesn't want to work in your brand of CD-ROM. You ask me, Product Activation is less of an annoyance than copy protecting the disc. Especially since I can make a backup of my XP disc.

How much is XP going to cost?
I always get the new windows from firends or family. I know, that's wrong, but you think I can afford to buy them?

Oh good! Another coward. If you can't afford to buy them, then explain to me why you need them in the first place.

NOTE: I said, NEED.

The new interface looks cool I guess, and I like the concept of each user in a household having his/her own login "click" ... especially if some people are less techy than others.

But are there any whiz-bang new features or changes that make this a must-buy for people with computers almost 3 years old?

"Something tells me I'm going to be running 98 or maybe Me (one day) for a long, long time."

I'll second that. I am running Windows 98SE at home for games and Windows 2000 SP2 at work and I have no intention of switching to Windows XP. Product activation be damned !

Here's an interesting article on XP (couldn't link directly -- board had trouble with the commas):

http://www.zdnet.com/anchordesk/stories/story/0,10738,2717308,00.html

I liked this bit towards the end:

If stability is the only big selling point, then perhaps Microsoft should give XP away as an upgrade--perhaps with an apology for all those crashes over the years and a promise to do better in the future. Maybe the Department of Justice would consider that an appropriate act of contrition.

I may actually upgrade for the stability, as long as I can run games at least as well as on '98, which this Wired article seems to indicate:

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,42907,00.html

There's even a tip in there for disabling the beta activation sequence (with MUTEXP), though MS claims the scheme has yet to be cracked, and that the registry/key information in MUTEXP was freely given to early beta testers.

On product activation (required after 30 days), MS does say this in their XP FAQ:

If a reinstallation of the software is needed, is reactivation required?

Not always. If the same version of the software is reinstalled on the same machine and the hard disk is not reformatted prior to reinstalling, the software will remain activated. Reactivation will be required if the hard disk is reformatted and the software is reinstalled. This is because the software�s activation status is stored on the hard drive and reformatting the hard drive erases that status.

And this:

If I reformat my hard disk, is reactivation required?

If the hard disk is reformatted and the software is reinstalled, reactivation will be required. The same grace periods for activation apply in this situation. Reactivation on the same PC can be completed as many times as required. The activation can be completed via telephone or Internet.

Thus, you'll only have to re-activate if you reformat.

With a substantial stability increase, and the new software and version improvements, I'll probably upgrade. Less hassle, crashing, and general degeneration of Windows would be welcome. I've also read that XP is much better at analyzing and troubleshooting system conflicts, which would cut down on the begging, crying, and head-banging that's all too common now.


- Raife

The GUI and it's embedded features are really quite a big change in XP. In fact, mark my words--the net will be chock full of people who bitch about the new interface.

Nearly all those bitches will be from relatively expert and long-time computer users who will insist that the "old way" was faster, easier, and better.

But trust me, the new GUI is mostly pretty slick. It's different, and hardcore computer users fear change. Especially when that change makes a familiar task easier for everyone by doing it a different way, which is what a lot of the GUI changes are. It's an interface my Mom could use really easily. It's something where she could do some stuff with Windows without being taught how.

Then again, people actually complained about Windows 95's interface when it came out. Remember that? Remember when people actually thought old Windows was better than 95? But lots of hardcore computer users said that very thing. They didn't want to learn something new, not after becoming experts at the old thing.

I think if people actually give the XP interface a chance, they'll really like it. It won't be better in EVERY way, but overall a sizeable improvement.

But when it's first released, hoo-boy! Prepare for the onslaught of complaints about how it's "dumbed down" and "slow as molasses" and "terribly organized" and all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, when Win95 was introduced and defaulted to hiding file extensions and de-captializing filenames onscreen that are actually all uppercase, that was intuitive thinking! I think the help file actually said it was to stop the directory listings looking "too messy." Good on them! Nothing dumbed down about that. ;)

That move must have caused the suicide rate for phone tech support workers to skyrocket.

Windows isn't bad really, it just needs an option like ICQ: Beginner and Advanced mode. Let the casual users have their simplified setup, with hidden files that are actually hidden, the Windows directory protected by some poncy message, and Active Desktop enabled. But for those who understand that computers can do more than play Solitaire, give us proper access back! Don't disable the DOS prompt for God's sake (ME).

And when less tech-savvy family/friends/clients call for help, there's a universal hotkey you can get them to press that puts the machine into 'Advanced' mode with all the sensible config settings in place that will make your troubleshooting job much easier.

I will hack XP on principle if I happen to buy it. I am against anything that hampers the honest consumer and this falls into that category IMO. I am running Windows 2000 SP2 at home and it runs pretty much every game (have win98se on dual boot) so I am not likely to upgrade right away anyway.

-- Xaroc

>Don't disable the DOS prompt for God's sake (ME).

Actually, I'd prefer it if they ripped out everything that has anything to do with DOS at all. Not just the prompt. DOS is holdin' us back, man!

I'm all for the simple/advanced mode switch. But really, anyone who should be using the advanced mose probably knows how to dig in a few menus and do stuff like show their file extentions.

>I am against anything that hampers the honest consumer and this falls into that category IMO.

So when a game has copy protection, do you use a copied pirate version of the disc? Do you refuse to use games with CD-keys?

When you want to play Quake 3 online and have to have your own CD key that nobody else can be using at that time, that's almost exactly the same principle as XP's Product Activation. You just "activate" Quake3 every time you try to join a 'net server, instead of one time upon install.

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So when a game has copy protection, do you use a copied pirate version of the disc? Do you refuse to use games with CD-keys?

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I really can't justify using Windows XP at home. My home machine is 95% used for gaming. This is the same reason I don't use Windows 2000 at home.

Obviously one day I will probably be forced to switch to XP (eg. XP only games) but until that time I am staying put.

>No, and I didn't say I would pirate XP. I said I would hack it.

I didn't mean to imply that. But you said "I am against anything that hampers the honest consumer and this falls into that category IMO." Well, disc copy protection hampers lots of honest consumers. Quake3's authorization scheme has hampered honest consumers. I was just curious if, "on principle," you circumvent those as well.

>Plus why do it if I don't have to?

Well it's certainly going to be easier to click the activation doohicky than go through the trouble of hacking around it. That's one reason.

I'm glad you brought up CD checks. That's a good example. They do that because for the CD key to actually prevent piracy in any way whatsoever, the game would need to go out on the 'net every time you fire up the game to validate that key. Otherwise, there's nothing stopping 5,000 people from copying the disc and using the same key. And validating the CD key every time you run the program is a hell of a lot more inconvienant and obtrusive than what WinXP does when they validate it once--what if it's a single-player game and you're not online?

>If you are going to require the CD then why the key?

That, I don't know. Unless you're validating CD keys for online players to prevent disc copying (ala Quake3 and Half-Life), I don't see why.

I personally think it's annoying to have to have the CD in the drive all the time. And I think CD keys are annoying. Sure. But I honestly can't blame software companies for making me do these things. They've tried being a little nicer than that, and piracy was a HUGE problem. At one time, there were more people playing the original Tribes online than there were sales of the game.

Until people stop pirating software, CD-checks, CD-key validating for online play, and stuff like Product Activation are just going to be necessary. If you hate those things, be pissed at the pirates who ruin it for all of us, not the publishers.

And by the way, defeating these schemes on principle as you do doesn't help the situation one iota. You still bought the product, and the software publisher has no idea you're circumventing their annoying schemes nor any financial incentive to change it.

>I don't like when companies try to force me to do things a certain way. As much as possible I will do things my way.

You must be a FANTSTIC driver, and real fun on airplanes. ;)

Sean - actually, it will probably be a good long while before there are XP-only games. There's a better chance of 64-bit only games before that happens. Actually, what will probably come first is hardware that is required for a certain game has dropped support for the 3-yr old Windows ME or whatever. But it'll be awhile.

Still, if you've got a decent machine, you might WANT XP at home. It's a Home OS. It's made to do home-type stuff better and/or easier (at least that's the idea). It's easier to hook up peripherals and install new stuff. It's more reliable. All good for games. Many gamers will find that XP does things like load large levels and stuff faster than ME/98 does.

It's like if Windows 2000 had a new interface and was actually optimized for stuff like games and multimedia, and had MUCH better game compatibility.

The one hitch, and the reason you might not want to upgrade right away, is drivers. Early WinXP drivers for 3D cards are likely to be a bit slower than Win 9x drivers (hopefully only marginally). That, and of course if you have less than 128 MB of RAM and less than a 600 MHz CPU, it's gonna be a bit on the slow side.

"The one hitch, and the reason you might not want to upgrade right away, is drivers. Early WinXP drivers for 3D cards are likely to be a bit slower than Win 9x drivers (hopefully only marginally). That, and of course if you have less than 128 MB of RAM and less than a 600 MHz CPU, it's gonna be a bit on the slow side."

Ahh... Microsoft OS's...

The bloat machine at work!

Jason wrote:

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Until people stop pirating software, CD-checks, CD-key validating for online play, and stuff like Product Activation are just going to be necessary. If you hate those things, be pissed at the pirates who ruin it for all of us, not the publishers.

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>I don't like when companies try to force me to do things a certain way. As much as possible I will do things my way.

You must be a FANTSTIC driver, and real fun on airplanes. ;)

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On Win2000. I run it at home. For the most part it runs every game I throw at it. I have had a few minor issues with a few games but usually by looking at NTCompatible I can find a fix. Speaking of which, if you are considering going over to Win2000 check that site out to determine if there are any showstopper games in your collection that won't work.

-- Xaroc

Damn link didn't come out right:

NTCompatible

That should do it.

-- Xaroc