So who was the idiot at Eidos who banned you Tom ?

The only PR guy I know at Eidos is Bryan Davies, who seems nice enough. I don't know if it's a personal choice he's made or something he was told to do from higher up, but he doesn't return my phone calls or emails. He's told more than one of my editors that Eidos won't work with me. This has apparently been their policy for some months now.

I don't know if it's something particular I've written (maybe the Deus Ex review?), but what I've been told second-hand is that they think I have a personal grudge against the company and can't write about them impartially.

Whatever.

I didn't like Deus Ex. Hitman was disappointing because it could have been so good. But Startopia looks like a fun romp and I'm really psyched for Frog City's Trade Empires. There. Now I'm impartial.

-Tom

I liked Deus Ex, but EIDOS has churned out sooooooooooo much ....mmmm..... dog poopy over the last couple of years, you'd think they'd have to just ban about every reviewer on the planet. :)

And I guess I liked Deus Ex more for what it was trying to than for any great AI or execution. System Shock 2 was a better example of what it was trying to do, me thinks.

Eidos used to have an awesome PR department. I can't get them to respond now. I love Westwood and Blizzard's PR departments... they know how to do it right.

What a childish thing for EIDOS to do. Bah.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Maybe if Tom disguises his name as, I dunno, Wumpus or something, he can outwit them! :D

Counter-strike's creator/designer (heck if I can remember how to spell his name) cited Hitman as his favorite recent game in PC Gamer's little back page feature. I think he even loved the lack of a save feature. *shudders*

It was mainly due to Deus Ex, Tom, according to that Davies idiot. I was dealing with him in setting up a trip a while back (several months back, actually) and all of a sudden he started a Tom Chick vent session over the phone. It was weird.

Plus I'm sure the Startopia preview didn't help. ;)

I think it's really sad that publishers stop dealing with writers based solely on bad reviews. Kinda sickening, actually.

I don't think many publishers do that sort of thing, Tom. Most of the developers and PR people I interact with are very gracious no matter how much I dislike a game.

But I'm really surprised Eidos is upset about the Deus Ex review. Mine was obviously a minority opinion. It was kept off Gamecenter by the editors (perhaps for good reason, but that's another topic...) and only made it online at GDR, where there are fewer readers. And I certainly didn't have any impact on sales; Deus Ex made them a nice bundle of money.

Sheesh, you'd think if Eidos had such thin skin over bad reviews, their collective head would have popped after Daikatana!

-Tom

I don't think it was that, really. I think it was that nearly everyone else drooled over the game in the press. Daikatana was blasted even by PlanetDaikatana. ;) Davies gave me the impression that they were stunned that someone could pan the game. The nerve! It's just bad form on Eidos' part. Comical as all get out, but bad form nonetheless.

Actually, I heard a couple of "What the fark was Tom Chick thinking?!" speeches issue forth from various media people. One was almost embarassing to witness because the guy didn't realize Tom was standing right behind him. I dunno if he overheard or not.

Personally, I'm on the fence with Day of Sex. Being a government agent with 6 bullets who has to crack crates in alleyways for more is STUPID. Comparisons to Daikatana are, however, unwarranted.

Heh, you can call a game bad or stupid, but comparing it to Daikatana always crosses a line. At any rate, whether you agree with a Tom Chick review or not, they're always a good read. I think that's just something you have to understand before you begin reading one, his tastes can be out there (crap, unintentional reference to his DR column) so you shouldn't have an expectation of agreement.

Brad Grenz

Sorry Brad, but Tom's just a punk. He's a big worded meanie that bullies poor defenseless games around and takes their lunch money.

Eidos is really trying to be the good guy in the face of Tom's tyranny... giving crappy games a chance. Come on Tom, give Daikatana another go! Learn to love the frogs.

Tom, try getting in touch with Kjell Vistad at Eidos. He was the first guy I could get through to--Davies won't return my emails, either. Lemme know if you want his contact info.

Does this kind of thing happen a lot? Wouldn't banning "out of line" journalists have the overall effect of damaging both the reputation of the company, and of gaming journalists in general, if the perception grows that you can be extorted into behaving nicely?

It just hit me that I've never bought an Eidos game. I'm not a big action-type, so Tomb Raider wasn't my speed, and most of their other titles didn't strike me well. I also never have (but keep vowing I will) buy some of the late-period Looking Glass titles (Thief 2, System Shock 2) to enjoy.

This is the first time I've heard of a writer being banned. Sometimes game companies get annoyed at writers, but refusing to work with one is a first in my experience. It's probably happened before, though.

There have been game companies that have pulled all their advertising from a magazine before over review treatment they didn't agree with.

Yeah, I've heard of that. I remember Richard Garriott having a long-standing thing with CGW over what he considered to be a CGW vendetta against Origin products, but they still advertised.

I came THIS CLOSE to going to the Eidos booth and asking to speak to the CARR-BOT. =)

Remember Eidos are the idiots that let Looking Glass die, and let Ion Storm live ....

Frankly all the hype of Thief 3 and Deus Ex 2 is not really high on me anymore... I'd rather try out Freedom Force or The Lost on a PS2 after hearing the news about the consoles getting them first...

oh well.

etc

Mark said:
"This is the first time I've heard of a writer being banned. Sometimes game companies get annoyed at writers, but refusing to work with one is a first in my experience. It's probably happened before, though. "

I can think of at least one case. Rod White (of the late PC&ME site) got into trouble with iMagic, but it wasn't just for saying negative things in a review. He also called their offices up and said some nasty things, as I understand. In the iMagic case, I can understand it being a situation of not wanting to deal with someone that's engaged a breach of professionalism. But I hardly think this is the same as the Chick case.

Professionalism...it's an inconsistent thing in this industry.

I had iMagic cancel an E3 appointment with me after I ravaged iPanzer44 in a review in the old CGS+. I showed up, the PR gal looked at my badge and told me "we've decided not to waste our valuable show time on you. Thank you for coming by." I just laughed, which pissed her off, and left. However, as soon as Scott assigned me anothe iMagic product review, I was getting phone calls and emails from them (they were horrible about wanting to know what the review rating was going to be ahead of time and trying to influence the review.)

Edios PR has always appeared to be the most arrogant in the business. My perception. Some of the best, OTOH, include Sierra and Microsoft. MS has always struck me as the most professional.

Jeff

"I came THIS CLOSE to going to the Eidos booth and asking to speak to the CARR-BOT. =)"

What bothers me most in this situation is that I've been told the Muckyfoot people were upset with that Startopia preview, which was supposed to be for fun rather than derision. I had thought of all people *those* guys would have a sense of humor about the whole thing!

-Tom

Edelman, the firm handling Microsoft PR, is generally superb, as is Linn PR, Bill Linn's group, which handles Fishtank Interactive among other accounts. Generally, though, most of the PR firms we deal with are good--whether TSI or Bender/Helper Impact, or whatnot. Internal PR varies, but again, usualy good--we've always had good relations for instance with Sierra, Interplay, and Activision.

We make a lot of jokes about PR types, but it's not an easy job a lot of times. Most of the PR pros do it well.

There are exceptions, of course, an personality conflicts....

Bob, you're absolutely correct. I'm willing to be that most of us on the writing side of the game would be terrible on the PR side of the game (except for Tom Chick, who even seems to be polite when debating politics. ;) ) By far the majority of the PR people are pros and treat all of our requests, reasonable or not, with a deft hand. Perhaps that's why Eidos stands out (to me) in their arrogance.

This thread is giving me flashbacks about Kristen McEntire...shudder.

Or Krys Card... I gotta say, I'm rather happy she isn't at Interplay anymore.

"Or Krys Card... I gotta say, I'm rather happy she isn't at Interplay anymore"

Really, why is that?

What I said there was a little harsh. In my experience with her, she was actually pretty nice... but I know other people who've dealt with her that were completely appalled by how rude she was at times,

Overall, though, I have to say that the worst PR experiences I've had have been with Sega. Most other companies have been pretty forthcoming with information.

I don't know. Yes, most of my experiences with PR are good, but a few here and there really reflect a lack of professionalism. I've had great support from the folks at Sierra, Arbuthnot, and generally good support from Edelman. I've found PR quality to be inconsistent everywhere else - which doesn't mean bad, just inconsistent.

The worst were the two previews in a row I had both go defunct on me because of poor PR support. Both developers agreed to work with me, both accepted the initial set of preview questions. One I never heard from again, and the PR firm was USELESS. The other actually sent me responses, but was unable to comply with a simple request for ten screenshots. Again, the external PR proved useless in aiding me.

Perhaps it was because I'm not as prolific as I used to be, or perhaps it was because my market wasn't reputable enough (unlikely, it was Gamecenter), or perhaps it was because some people couldn't do their jobs. I'm betting on the latter. Look, I understand that developers get busy, but how hard is it for the PR folk to push email?

The result is that I was unable to complete the articles despite it not really being my fault. When a developer and a PR firm are both black holes...

You know... I've never dealt with Edelman... just Arbuthnot... do they handle different divisions?

Edelman is supposed to focus on print pubs, Arbuthnot on online. Weird that MS did it that way, but fortunately both firms seem to be quite accomodating.

What Ion Storm should be doing is getting Tom's input on Deus Ex 2 from day one. How else are they going to fix the flaws with the first game? I can just see the ad campaign now: "Deus Ex 2: even Tom Chick thought it was good"

What I find interesting is the responses I get from non-PR people (usually developers). I would argue that you can tell a lot about a game based on developer attitude. On second thought, I think it's one of the big reasons they try and limit press interaction to just the PR folks.

- Alan

Who was it that Jason D'april had PR horror stories about? I forget the story, but remember it as quite entertaining.

I for one just love Krys Card, though since her marriage I can't remember her last name . But different strokes, etc. Some PR people I loathe others just adore, so as I said, personality does play a role. I'm sure there are plenty of people who think I'm a dork.

Um, ok, I am a dork. But that's neither here nor there....

I haven't really had any problems with any PR people. Some are more responsive than others, but all have been fairly pleasant towards me.

She's Krys Grondo now.
Yeah, I know, "Card" was better but I'm not going to start mocking anyone's last name.

I recall she didn't like constantly being referred to as "Kryscard" which people have been doing since High School.

Yes, I went to High School with her. Imagine my surprise when I literally ran into her at Gen Con '98 not knowing she was with Interplay at the time.

I do miss her, but she's with Bender Helper Impact now... though not with the game side of things I think.

-Andrew "Irvine High Alum" Bub

Hey, at least you didn't go to the esteemed "Sandy Valley HS". Jeeze, they could have called it "Sweet Pea High" and had a cooler name. Our mascot was this sick looking cardinal made out of somebody's red wool blanket.

Yeah well... at least you guys had a decent mascot. Our's, at Strathcona Composite HS, was a lion named Gaylord. Yay.

"a lion named Gaylord"

Oh boy, I'm sure the opposing high schools had some fun with that. Gaylord? Ha ha, man that's funny.

Good old John H. Francis Polytechnic High School in scenic Sun Valley, CA. I was a proud parrot. They tried to make it look all badass and all, but it was still... a proud parrot. Yeesh.

And Jeff Green can fill you in on our biggest competitor, since he went to that school (though he's much, much, much older than I am). I think they are the Grant Gaylords, or something like that.

My pinnacle high school moment, which I repeat endlessly to whomever will listen, is facing current Red Sox reliever Rod (then Rodney) Beck in both little league and in high school (he went to Grant). I should invent a better story than "I struck out looking" when I was a 13-year old All-Star (hey, the guy had a freakin' fu-manchu mustache at 13, I was scared)... okay, how about I hit a game-tying 2-run homer? Don't want to get too greedy there...

In junior high, we were the Trojans. You can imagine how fun that was...

In high school, we were the Sandites. (It's actually a very small sand flea.) Our mascot was the minuteman, which is quite a bit cooler than the flea. Still, we started a petition to change the mascot to the flea...

"(hey, the guy had a freakin' fu-manchu mustache at 13, I was scared)..."

Heh -- I'll bet. There's a kid who was focused on intimidating his opponents.

"In high school, we were the Sandites. (It's actually a very small sand flea.)"

Who picks a small flea for a team name? That's just kind of bizarre.

I went to Webster University in the St. Louis area and we barely had sports teams. Our team name was the Gorlocks, which was a made up name from the conjunction of two streets near the school, Gore Ave. and Lockwood. While it's stupid, it's better than being a Gaylord.

So what's the mascot for Morehead University? A giant penis?

I don't know who picked that, Mark. I do know that they were probably wise for not picking that for our mascot. (I'm from Sand Springs, so I guess someone just thought "Sand Springs Sandites" sounded good.)

Still, I think a giant flea would have been a cool mascot.

UC Santa Cruz is the Banana Slugs, though that wasn't their real name. Eventually it became it, though, because everyone just dug how stupid it sounded.

Steve:
"My pinnacle high school moment, which I repeat endlessly to whomever will listen, is facing current Red Sox reliever Rod (then Rodney) Beck in both little league and in high school (he went to Grant)."

Jeez! Really?
I don't follow baseball any more but I do play High Heat avidly and, given the Wrigley Field bug, I couldn't play the Cubs like normal. So, I'm midway through a Red Sox season right now.

Beck is probably my favorite reliever, I've had stunningly good luck with him lately. Or, maybe he is that good?

Anyway, great anecdote Steve.

-Andrew

Ridgeview High School, in Fulton Co., suburban Atlanta. Now a middle school I think, or a juvenile detention center, can't remember which. We were the Redskins, very unpolitically correct. But fairly normal for the time.

My great moment may have been dressing up as Orca the Killer Whale one day.

Cleveland Heights High, which, I believe, is the same school Erik went to. Of course, our test scores were much higher back when I was there. =)

We were the very bland, and politcally correct ahead of our time, Tigers.

---

Quote:

I do miss her, but she's with Bender Helper Impact now... though not with the game side of things I think.

---

I went to two high schools, so I was a Tiger and a Wildcat. Yawn. In college, I was a Highlander, but the UC system usually uses bears, so it was a highlander bear named Scotty. He looked like a teddy bear wearing a kilt and carrying bagpipes. The athletic department recently paid a crapload of money to have the logo redesigned into a vicious bear in a skirt (er, kilt! sorry!), see? I do like the alternate logo with the Claymores, though. My few drops of Scottish blood are pleased.

"Cleveland Heights High, which, I believe, is the same school Erik went to."

Yeah, I went to Heights. That's pretty crazy.

Graduate school at the University of Akron - home of the terror inducing Zips (formerly Zippers.)

The mascot was a kangaroo - insert jokes here...

Whoa... wait a minute here. I'm seeing a trend.

I'm from Waynesburg, slightly south of Canton/Akron. I work in Akron actually, if you could call my slacking work.

Erik was recently thrown out of cleveland by angry dwaves.

Jason, similar victim of angry cleveland dwarves... or do you still live there?

And now... Jeff Lackey. From Akron? Or you just went to school here and then made a run for it when the coast was clear?

Folks, this goes to show you... no good ever came of NE Ohio.

"Jason, similar victim of angry cleveland dwarves... or do you still live there?"

Nope. I live in Chicago. But I think it was Bruce's elves that got me.

"no good ever came of NE Ohio"

Or SE Ohio...
EDS stationed me at Belpre, OH (a really podunk little town across the river from Parkersburg, WV) in 1991-1992.

Bernie

Well, you were in "North West Virginia". It's still considered Virginia of some flavor as long as the locals have regular bigfoot sightings.

"the locals have regular bigfoot sightings"

Nah, no bigfoots, those are the women. I read a demographic once that said OH had a high proportion of overweight smoking women. Buckeyes indeed.