MS buys Ensemble

QuarterToThree Message Boards: News: MS buys Ensemble
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Greg Kasavin on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 01:50 am:

I noticed in Mark's update about Microsoft's acquisition of Ensemble Studios that he had the same exact concern that I had when I heard the news: "We hope this doesn't mean that Ensemble's games will be Xbox exclusives." I actually had a chance to speak with Stuart Moulder, MS's new general manager of PC games, about this issue.

Essentially, Moulder said that Ensemble was acquired strictly because of its ability to create good PC games, and that current and future plans for the company will focus on this strength. So, while Moulder didn't rule out the possibility of Ensemble eventually making Xbox games (or of Ensemble's PC games being ported over to the console), he did express that the acquisition of Ensemble is meant to reinforce Microsoft's commitment to PC gaming. In not so many words, Moulder suggested that all the drama surrounding the release of the Xbox would in turn help Microsoft get an even stronger grip on the PC games market, since so many developers are switching over to the consoles these days.

Moulder went on to explain Microsoft's plans for PC gaming, which is that the company apparently hopes to capitalize on the strengths of the PC as a gaming platform--namely, in how the best PC games are those with a strong player community. The company plans to emphasize those genres that are well suited for and successful on the PC: strategy games and role-playing games. (Moulder conspicuously didn't mention shooters, though.) It sounds like Microsoft plans to redouble its efforts to make each of its upcoming games have excellent online play features and a lot of post-release support and supplemental content.

I found all this comforting, personally. I've never been a Microsoft hater--Microsoft software makes my computer work. I think Microsoft's backing of games like Age of Empires II and MechWarrior 4 helped make these games as successful as they were.

Between Xbox and Microsoft's PC plans, it seems pretty clear to me that the company's going to be a major player in the games business very soon, if it isn't already. As usual, it looks like MS is shooting for the stars.

--Greg


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Tom Ohle on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 02:09 am:

In my past experiences with MS, I've found that they've always been a major player in the industry. They may be a few years behind everyone else in terms of acquisitions and subsidiaries, but they're on the right track. I've thoroughly enjoyed most of their titles, and I think this acquisition will only make Ensemble's games better.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Sean Tudor on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 02:11 am:

Thanks for the information. Obviously Microsoft made an offer to Ensemble that was simply too good to refuse. Let's hope Ensemble hasn't sold their souls and continues to produce groundbreaking PC games.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Asher on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 02:15 am:

"I found all this comforting, personally. I've never been a Microsoft hater--Microsoft software makes my computer work. I think Microsoft's backing of games like Age of Empires II and MechWarrior 4 helped make these games as successful as they were."

Yeah, I don't hate MS the way some people do, though I find some of their practices disturbing, such as the recent news of their awards program for PC technicians who rat out PC sellers who aren't installing an OS on PCs they sell, or something like that.

I do think that if Ensemble's games translated well to being played with a gamepad, we'd see an Xbox exclusive for 6 months with Age of Mythology, however. Lucky for us PC lovers that RTS games really need to be played with a mouse.

Now I can't wait to see how MS prices the Xbox. I'm thinking they have to come in at $199 if that's what the PS2 is going for. Sony's going to make them bleed some green blood to gain marketshare.

One last thing about Microsoft's game division. They've put out some good stuff lately -- Mech 4, Crimson Skies, Asheron's Call, even Starlancer -- but nothing seems to have sold all that great for them besides Flight Sim and AOE. That's surprising, given their marketing muscle.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Asher on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 02:20 am:

"Obviously Microsoft made an offer to Ensemble that was simply too good to refuse."

It's probably got a lot to do with Sony buying up some companies and ensuring PS2 exclusives. These execs have to be thinking that if they don't snap up some companies, the competition will.

It's probable that Ensemble got a great deal.

I'd like to know what Verant got for selling to Sony. I wouldn't be surprised if they got $150 million. Hell, they might have gotten much more.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Greg Kasavin on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:50 am:

"Obviously Microsoft made an offer to Ensemble that was simply too good to refuse."

Stuart Moulder actually had a funny way of expressing that, of all of Microsoft's recent acquisitions, the acquisition of Ensemble was by far the simplest, most natural, and most straightforward. In his words, Ensemble and Microsoft "had already been dating for five years" so the whole thing "seemed like the perfect match." This is true, of course, since they'd been working together ever since Age of Empires.

I remember visiting Ensemble in Texas a couple of years ago, back before Age II was released. Their CEO Tony Goodman had nothing but good things to say for the relationship with Microsoft. He said that, contrary to what one might expect, Microsoft wasn't at all overbearing, and let the owners of Ensemble run the company the way they wanted to.

Granted, it's not like he'd badmouth Microsoft even if things were actually bad. Still, unlike with Bungie, Microsoft isn't planning on relocating Ensemble even in light of this buyout. Moulder also explained that there was no particular sense of immediacy in the buyout--Ensemble wasn't hard-up for cash or anything--but it seems like Microsoft was very interested in securing Age of Mythology as a separate brand, in parallel to Age of Empires.

In short, all this led me to believe that the acquisition of Ensemble will have no discernible effect as far as game players are concerned. Moulder explained that they plan to push the Ensemble name now more than ever, now that it's part of Microsoft, and the acquisition probably gives them even more incentive to ensure the success of Ensemble's games.

Personally, I've always felt that the Age of Empires series wouldn't have been successful if not for Microsoft. The sequel was much better than its predecessor, but the sequel was only made possible because Microsoft really pushed the original. A fledgling RTS franchise like Cavedog's Total Annihilation didn't enjoy that sort of good fortune....

On a related note, I may be mistaken, but I don't think any negative consequences occurred as a result of Microsoft's acquisition of FASA. MechWarrior 4 turned out quite good.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Bub (Bub) on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 09:56 am:

It'd be foolish I think for MS to make the next Ensemble RTS Xbox exclusive. There is simply no console branding for it (yet) not to mention Mark's observation about the control scheme. AOE and it's sequel/expansions sold better on the PC than most console games period.

I wouldn't be worried.
Now, Motocross Madness... there's a console title waiting to happen.

Hmmm... now that MS bought Ensemble, I wonder how this affects that Star Wars game for LucasArts?

-Andrew


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Bernie Dy on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 10:24 am:

Greg: Thanks for the insights. It sounds like Ensemble and MS have a very good relationship indeed, which I hope will result in continued great products. Sometimes I got the impression that Terminal Reality didn't quite feel the same way toward MS.

Andrew, I expect the arrangement Ensemble had with LucasArts should continue as any contracts had specified. Heh, a 'preexisting condition', as those health insurance bastards called it when they wouldn't reimburse for one of my son's doctor visits!


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Bussman on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 02:03 pm:


Quote:

I find some of their practices disturbing, such as the recent news of their awards program for PC technicians who rat out PC sellers who aren't installing an OS on PCs they sell, or something like that.



I remember hearing about that here, but I don't understand the point of it. Can someone shed more light on it?

Quote:

Lucky for us PC lovers that RTS games really need to be played with a mouse.



Who says you can't plug a mouse into a console? Or a derivative of MS's Strategic Commander?

Quote:

On a related note, I may be mistaken, but I don't think any negative consequences occurred as a result of Microsoft's acquisition of FASA. MechWarrior 4 turned out quite good.



I don't know if it's directly related to the MS aquisition of FASA, but I do know that you can't get miniatures for Battletech anymore, and I think FASA sold the rights to the Battletech universe to another company.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Asher on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:10 pm:

About the MS program for PC technicians to rat out their companies, I think it has to do with installing OEM versions of Windows. I guess some PC makers are contractually obligated to install Windows, but their customers don't always want to pay for it. So they don't install it and pass the savings on to the customer -- something like that. Anyway, MS has started a program that gives technicians points for turning in companies that are not installing Windows like they should, and the points can be redeemed for MS products.

About RTS games on consoles, you can plug in a mouse. Sony had one for the PSX and C&C. The problem is that the sell-through for these devices is generally so low that console game makers end up not making games that can take advantage of them.

FASA went out of business and Jordan Weisman picked up the rights to Battletech and some other games for his Wizkids company. FASAi was sold to Microsoft. FASA remained independant until they collapsed, recently.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Jason Levine on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:24 pm:

As I undersand the MS program, the stated idea was to rat out manufacturers who allowed their customers to install or have installed unlicensed copies of Windows. That would be legitimate on the surface. However, the worrisome aspect of the program is that it would have a chilling effect on manufacturers who would otherwise be very willing to sell their customers a "blank" machine so they could install another OS, i.e, Linux.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:31 pm:

I think that's exactly right, Jason. A lot of PC manufacturers did that, too -- they would just pirate copies to save themselves or their customers (usually the former, occasionally the latter) money.

Legally, there is no way MS can hurt manufacturers who are installing another OS, unless they have some kind of contract with the individual companies, and I don't think that happens very often.

As someone who builds lots of computers for customers, it is very, very rare that someone asks for a "blank" machine. More likely, they'd ask us to install Linux for them. Slightly different, but just the same, there's nothing that MS can do about it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Jason Levine on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:44 pm:


Quote:

As someone who builds lots of computers for customers, it is very, very rare that someone asks for a "blank" machine. More likely, they'd ask us to install Linux for them. Slightly different, but just the same, there's nothing that MS can do about it.




Murph, you're right that there's nothing overt that they can do about it. The insidious aspect of their program is that what people fear they might do is direct a communication to a builder like you saying, "We've learned that you've sold x number of systems without a licensed version of Windows installed. We better not catch you installing pirated copies. We'll be watching you." You decide that you don't need the hassle, so you tell your customers, "Sorry, no more Linux machines." That's what I meant by a "chilling effect."
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Michael Murphy (Murph) on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 03:57 pm:

I see your point.

Hopefully (and maybe I'm being optimistic and naive here), there aren't such a large number of manufacturers that use pirated copies that this will severely inhibit a consumer's ability to get a Linux machine.

Every computer we sell comes with a certificate of authenticity.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Geo on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 04:20 pm:

It's the end of the world!!!!!!!
*hyperventilates*

Actually, it reminds me a lot of Blizzard acquiring Condor (now Blizzard North). Ensemble seemed to get along well with MS all along, so it seems a smart thing unless there's some nefarious, "X-Box Exclusives/First Runs" requirement involved. In which case I'll go back to...

It's the end of the world!!!!!
*hyperventiles*


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Bussman on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 07:16 pm:

Thanks for the insights about the MS program and FASA fellows. (Deliberately typed that way in homage to Trevor.)


Quote:

Sony had one for the PSX and C&C. The problem is that the sell-through for these devices is generally so low that console game makers end up not making games that can take advantage of them.




Ah I see. I don't really care much about the Xbox, but it occured to me that if it used USB plugs for it controllers (do they? i don't even know.), they could have it support any USB mouse, which many people are likey to have. Or if they weren't USB plugs, sell a $5 adapter so that you could use a USB mouse. Still, I guess that forces MS to use the assumption that someone has a mouse to plug in...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Tom Ohle on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 07:39 pm:

I assume they'll have USB plugs. The PS2 does - if it didn't, UT would be worthless.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Geo on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 07:51 pm:

UT's the only PS2 game that supports USB mice so far. Read an interesting article about why that is (at Daily Radar of all places), which is basically developer laziness. Perhaps because of its PC background, Epic developers said it wasn't hard to add support.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Mark Asher on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 08:52 pm:

"Perhaps because of its PC background, Epic developers said it wasn't hard to add support."

Yeah, makes sense. And if it had been a console title from the start instead of a port, it would only work with the gamepad, I can almost guarantee it. The mouse wouldn't be a feature that would sell many copies of the game.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Dave Long on Friday, May 4, 2001 - 09:35 pm:

Xbox does not use USB plugs. All hardware plug ports are proprietary with the exception of the ethernet jack.

--Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 12:56 am:

>Lucky for us PC lovers that RTS games really need to be played with a mouse.

That's a matter of design, though, not genre. Anyone else fondly remember the amazingly great Genesis game Herzon Zwei? Granted, there hasn't been another RTS on a console worth its salt since then, but the fact that there was even one (and that quite a long time ago) shows that it CAN be done.

>Xbox does not use USB plugs. All hardware plug ports are proprietary with the exception of the ethernet jack.

True, and a common misonception. The controller ports on the Xbox are USB ports from the standpoint of their interface, singaling, and API. But the plug is shaped differently, and it offers up more voltage than a normal USB port (necessary for all those rumble effects and to power possible plug-in devices like memory cards, mikes, etc.). If you made an adaptor so that a normal USB device would fit in the port, it could concievably be made to work with little hassle because the signaling and OS hooks are the same, but the voltage alone could very well fry it.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Dave Long on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 01:17 am:


Quote:

Granted, there hasn't been another RTS on a console worth its salt since then, but the fact that there was even one (and that quite a long time ago) shows that it CAN be done.


Hundred Swords, released in Japan on Dreamcast, looked like a true RTS. I still haven't seen it on US release lists yet though and I was looking forward to it. Online play and everything...

Herzog Zwei is a classic in every sense of the word. I was really pissed when I got taken by an April Fools joke on rec.games.video.sega about a Dreamcast sequel. The guy that wrote it (Shidoshi, formerly of Gamefan) had done so good with the post that I was jumping up and down until a day later when I realized what the date was. >=(

Thanks for the clarification on the USB, Jason. I knew it wasn't straight USB, but I didn't know it was the voltage that helped make it so. Makes complete sense though because as you note, it takes a little extra power to make that controller shake. I figured they'd throw a few volts in there to light up that green glob, but unforunately they didn't. :)

--Dave
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 01:51 pm:

I know all kinds of ultimately useless technical facts about the Xbox (and other consoles, for that matter). Especially with PC hardware manufacturers getting into the game, it's all part of the neverending research I do to at least attempt to have an informed opinion. =)

I mean, we've got Intel and NVIDIA in Xbox (and maybe sorta AMD if the Hypertransport stuff is to be believed...I'm gonna have to follow up on that at E3). Gamecube has a Motorola chip which is a PowerPC derivation being made by IBM (right here in Burlington, actually!). The graphics/sound chip was designed by ArtX, who ATI purchased, and is being built by NEC.

As far as I'm concerned, a decent tech editor SHOULD follow this stuff. Even if it's console, it's all interrelated. =)


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Dave Long on Sunday, May 6, 2001 - 05:03 pm:

Heh...yeah, I think I told you guys about the Gamecube chip being made (and designed) there in Burlington. An uncle on my wife's side is in charge of the Burlington plant believe it or not. It's pretty common knowledge now that they're making the main processor there for the Gamecube. It was really hard to keep my mouth shut when he told me about it eons ago. They were pretty damn excited about it. It's also been ready to go for almost two years now I think.

Being a wealth of worthless knowledge is how I make my way in the world. It's good to know I'm in good company. :)

And yeah, as an editor you're just doing your job. Nothing wrong with that. I have to admit that my one line response above was out of sheer tiredness at answering that same thing about USB over and over and over. I feel like everyone keeps saying that to try to make it so just because they've said it enough times.

--Dave


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of pageLink to this message  By Jason_cross (Jason_cross) on Monday, May 7, 2001 - 11:14 am:

Was it you who told me about it? I think I read about it in Wired or something like two or three years ago (when it was first announced, hidden in some press release, that Nintendo and IBM were working together).

>Being a wealth of worthless knowledge is how I make my way in the world. It's good to know I'm in good company.

Yeah, it's fun knowing a lot of stuff that only 1% of 1% of the population gives a damn about.

>I feel like everyone keeps saying that to try to make it so just because they've said it enough times.

One of the big problems with the 'net, I feel, is that anyone can publish. That's its great strength, of course, but it's a big problem. Any 'ol site can publish opinion, suppositions, or conjecture as though it were fact. And they do. There's a lot of misinformation out there, and it's usually because the guys in charge of that website don't bother to even try to get the story straight--they just want the story UP and they want hits.

And they often get them.

But as a result, there are a lot of misinformed people out there who don't even know it. I hear a lot of half-truths and plain 'ol BS about the Xbox (and other consoles) being spouted from very sober people, all because they read the wrong thing at the wrong place.

If I hear that the Xbox has a GeForce3 inside ONE MORE TIME I'm gonna have an anheurism. (with the headache I have today, it's not a stretch)


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