Jessica Mulligan's Biting the Hand... column at Happy Puppy takes a look at how the gaming industry has been befuddled as it tries to figure out what women gamers want. It's lively reading.

"More recent studies have indicated that slightly over 50 percent of online gamers are women.

"OK, so more women are playing games. That still leaves the males who overwhelmingly dominate Executive Row in this industry, some of whom have been leading us for 15 years and more, with a perplexing question: why? They look at the figures and see that women play a wide assortment of online fare, such as card games and trivia games and a darn good share of the MMOG subscription market. Then they scratch their heads and say to each other, "Do you know why? Should we make more card games?" At that point, they just look at each other, shrug and head for the nearest strip club, where they slip dollar bills in the dancers' thong panties and, in between treating each other to lap dances, continue the discussion about how to figure out why women play games."

Mulligan is one of the better game writers you'll encounter, but we think she fails to address some questions in this column. She notes that 50% or more of the online gamers are women now, but lumps the free online games like Hearts in with the hardcore games like EverQuest. How are publishers supposed to make money with free games? She never really comes out with a prescriptive that will actually entice women to buy games, besides noting that "...products that feature some adventure and originality, sales spike for both males and females. For example, Diablo II, Half-Life, and The Sims are all million-plus sellers."

All fine and good, yet that doesn't explain why games strong on story and adventure like adventure games no longer sell. And for every game she mentions, we can come up with similar games that haven't sold as well.

So what do women want when it comes to games?

Why is it that in most of these articles that in order to sell to women, companies have to stop selling to men?

I find it amusingly ironic that Mark would ask a largely male dominated forum �what do women want when it comes to games?� Still, I�ll bite the proverbial unpinned grenade and give my .02c. Having a superb resource living in my house, i.e. a girlfriend who is a gamer, I think I can offer some insight based on my observations of her and others I know, regarding gaming habits and tastes.

The primary attraction for women gamers---based off Alicia and several of her friends that she converted to the gaming arena--- seems to be an (mostly) identifiable interest range. I�ll list points based on my observations. It's also factoring in questions posed to me (the "supposed' gaming expert) by newly converted female gamers inquiring about other titles/online environments that would appeal to their tastes. Will start off with one that could easily explain the implosion of female only publisher/titles...


1) Women rarely seem attracted to "women only games". They enjoy games that allow a wide range of human interaction and support a community-based environment. Most of all they seem to seek out communities that have a good balance of both women and men! A place that has male counterparts that enjoy their same interests seems to be very important as well as a place that casual and friendly flirting can be enjoyed without pressure of continued �real world� involvement. My perception on this is they value a place for "practice" flirting without the pitfalls of real world consequences. Alicia in particular seems to macro on UO with other women (raise stats while chatting) but hunt/dungeon crawl with men.

I'll back up this supposition with the reaction I noticed with female acquaintances (or otherwise) in the Sacramento area regarding the release of EA's The Sims. Initially the eight women I know in this area (and played games) where all quite excited by The Sims. However, after it's release I heard the same universal complaints (to varying degrees). The abstract language system was annoying and the dynamics of the human relationship were totally unrealistic and were even a bigger annoyance. Only Alicia's Mom still plays the Sims from time to time, everyone else became quite disenchanted with the portrayal of the relationship model. Alicia was the first to suggest that an online version (and more under the direct control of the player) would be perfectly suited for this franchise. The agreement was pretty much unanimous with her female gaming friends.

2) Non-violent games of strategy of puzzles seem to be a favorite among female gamers, in my experience anyway. Card games or games of building or puzzles/strategy elements of a very DISTINCT range seem to appeal to several of my female gaming counterparts here. I could take stabs in the dark for the seemingly distinctive preferences of puzzles/strategy elements, maybe something to do with cultural roles of females in modern society (which seems to stereo typically focus of relationships, and the rules and structure thereof, this could conceivably translate into a comfort zone with puzzles/strategy titles that seem to focus on abstract relational puzzle models). Or I could admit I just don't have a clue for the specific reasons of this! :) I Will say, I HAVE noticed that Alicia in particular seems to shy away from titles/genres I specialize in. She hates wading through a game for two weeks when I can finish it in a marathon weekend. She initially enjoyed Starcaft but quit after I nearly completed it in a weekend. So that maybe another modifying factor.

3) Almost all games have a sexist slant. Most times it unintentionally (IMO), though I think Alicia could better make this argument than I could she has a long laundry list of games and their offences on her hit list. The one I can think of that sticks out in almost every game I've played is the death sounds of female units. They all sound like they're having an orgasm! I suppose a realistic terrified death-scream would be disturbing to the extreme but having woman sound like their in the throes of passion as they get off'ed is equally offensive to woman. I never noticed it before she mentioned it and now I hear it in almost EVERY game (try listening to the death screams in V:TM for a perfect example)!

So in short women (in my experience) seem to be drawn to games that provide strategy and puzzle elements (though typically not of the same variety that appeal to men), show a modicum of respect to women but yet has a balanced male/female gender ratio with their players.

"So in short women (in my experience) seem to be drawn to games that provide strategy and puzzle elements (though typically not of the same variety that appeal to men), show a modicum of respect to women but yet has a balanced male/female gender ratio with their players."

Yeah, I'd go along with this, though I don't know that the presence of a large number of men is vital.

Some of it has to be socialization, too. My wife has no interest in games where one of the goals is to kill things. She won't even give those games a chance.

The only games my wife has liked have been the Sims and online card and puzzle games. I'm not sure what the appeal of the former is, though she enjoyed the soap opera of their various relationships and enjoyed trying to keep them happy. With the latter being able to chat while playing is key to her.

I could see a game that combined elements of The Sims (create a character, get a house, earn money to buy cool things for your house, be part of an online city of other Sims) and card and puzzle games could be popular. Play a game of Hearts and win Simdollars you can use to buy a new sofa for your Simhome.

I know what I want as a woman gamer is for all female RPG and gaming characters to stop looking like prostitutes! I want my character to have actual pants on instead of a tiny little skirt with her rear hanging out for all to see, and her chest covered and not ridiculously huge. It is insulting to me to see my gender represented this way in almost all games... Because of this, I tend to play male characters, as I prefer strong fighters anyway (and those are almost *never* female, of course...). I think the game industry needs to do some catching up and realize that women do not want to play scantily-clad representations of their gender any more than a man might want to play a male character who was baring all to the world.

"women do not want to play scantily-clad representations of their gender any more than a man might want to play a male character who was baring all to the world. "

You may be right...I don't play MMORPGs, but I hear that lots of men like playing FEMALE characters that bare all to the world.

"Some of it has to be socialization, too. My wife has no interest in games where one of the goals is to kill things. She won't even give those games a chance."

When my wife gets upset that I missed some subtle hint, I always remind her that millions of years of evolution control my approach to problems and interaction: hit it on the head with a stick until it is dead. If it is too big, get some other males, and all of us hit it with sticks until it is dead.

To me, that sort of explains the appeal of games like Diablo.

"I think the game industry needs to do some catching up and realize that women do not want to play scantily-clad representations of their gender any more than a man might want to play a male character who was baring all to the world."

That's just a little too broad. I accept MOST women and MOST men might feel that way, but some people do want that. I agree it should be a choice, and neither sex should be forced to play in a brass bikini, but some will want to play that way. For example, I could see playing a Conan-like character, clad only in a small piece of fur with half my rear flapping in the breeze, while someone else may want to play as an effeminate sailor...

"I know what I want as a woman gamer is for all female RPG and gaming characters to stop looking like prostitutes! I want my character to have actual pants on instead of a tiny little skirt with her rear hanging out for all to see, and her chest covered and not ridiculously huge."

There should be a choice of character models, I agree.

Of course the male models are bad in their own way, with exaggerated muscles and all. I'm more likely to run into real-world females who look like Lara than I am to run into men who are muscle-bound like the games depict them.

"You may be right...I don't play MMORPGs, but I hear that lots of men like playing FEMALE characters that bare all to the world."

Yeah, they do. They also get preferential treatment from other males quite often. It's weird, but I get this slightly protective urge in EverQuest when I see female characters. I'm more likely to cast beneficial spells on them, stop and help them in a fight, etc.

I think if women are over 50% of the market at this point, then it is their own fault if they do not like the games that are available.

(Pauses to let the righteous noises from the gallery to fade)

Look, folks, Money talks, and games look the way they do because of verbal and monetary feedback received from customers. This includes men and women. If you aren't willing to let the manufacturers know what you want, or work within the community, or even just not buy the games, then you are relying on game publishers to develop an intuition beyond anything humanly possible.

There are problems, though. Most women don't seem very active in participating in forums (like, gee, this one), or discussing gaming improvements. In fact, the one "woman" we had post on this topic was just an anonymous person saying s/he was a woman. On the web, you can't trust gender. Men pretend to be women to get special favors. Women pretend to be men to avoid being hassled. Result: Who knows what women want, since you don't even know who the women are?

I question whether women are really over half the gamers out there. I want to know what percentage of PAYING game-players they are. Get that number, and you can bet people will look for commonality in design that appeals to women.

"I question whether women are really over half the gamers out there. I want to know what percentage of PAYING game-players they are. Get that number, and you can bet people will look for commonality in design that appeals to women."

Mulligan was rather coy when she wrote that. She lumped all the people playing the free games like Hearts in with the type of online games we play.

Verant estimates that about 10-15% of their players are female. That's quite a bit higher than industry estimates for single-player games, but still a decided minority.

What people like Mulligan don't like to hear is that maybe the card games and such *are* what women like to play. I don't know, but it's possible that those are the kinds of games that in general appeal to women.

I don't buy into this idea that if you make games with more story and adventure and make the women look normal instead of like sex objects that females will suddenly flock to playing shooters and RTS games, etc. If they did want to play those kinds of games, we'd see many more of them playing now and just putting up with the shortcomings.

Finally, I never really see female gamers explain what kinds of games they want to play besides complaining about the overt sexism in the current ones. Speak up and let the game companies know what you want.

"Some of it has to be socialization, too. My wife has no interest in games where one of the goals is to kill things."

Yea, I think I feel asleep somewhere about half way through my post and forgot to re-read my closing statement. Of course, the socialization aspect plays an important role! :) The women I know really enjoy games that recreate realistic human interaction (or at least the illusion of it). They also enjoy games with distinctive characters that have an element of character discovery. Again, I think this is being impacted by the strong draw of title with socialization elements. So this would explain the preferences for adventure type games and even The Sims

"When my wife gets upset that I missed some subtle hint, I always remind her that millions of years of evolution control my approach to problems and interaction.."

I have a theory on this too and it fits somewhat into this discussion. Though, I should admit up front that I majored all of one year in psychology at CSUS. Which means I have exactly enough knowledge to make an ass of myself...but that�s never stopped me before�:)

Two schools of argument exist for behavior (at least the last time I was in class), one thinks the primary influence of our psyche is learned behavior and the other side thinks we get most of our distinctive characteristic from genetics. Both may be a factor but I personally think the former has a greater impact on human behavior in the long run. A relevant example is that cultures throughout history had different roles for the genders. However, in our culture women have largely been viewed as nurturing, compassionate and caregivers; with calm and diminutive natures (i.e. taboo to show overt aggression).


The cultural perception is that little girls should be raised with dolls, tea parties and things sugary. Of course, many parents these days try to raise their kids outside of this cookie cutter mold. The problem is the greater perception of our society is that women should still fit this gender role. So even if a young lady was raised outside of her perceived role she is often confronted with discomfort from others when she behaves outside of the "norm" in general society (i.e. school, friends, other parents, strangers). Thus a young woman is typically confronted with a role she must at least conform to or accept that she is seen as an outsider or rebel to that role. This creates an artificial comfort zone for a women�s role in our society.

That is why woman are typically much subtler than men. Aggressive behavior is considered a break from their accepted gender role, so growing up girls typically are forced to use more subtle Machiavellian tactics to accomplish their ambitions. They spend a lifetime learning to manipulate indirectly where as men are given no such restrictions in fact are taught that the more bold and daring the greater reward. Who didn't want to be the school bully on some level or the football star!? On the other hand, don�t believe women can be ruthless? Ask any women about their friends in high school/college or a current rival. Your ears might shrivel into your shoes with some of the back stabbing stories you�d hear. At least that is true in my case.

So gaming could be seen as an extension of any person�s comfort zone. For many women they spend a lifetime in our culture learning the boundaries of the societal mechanism and then learning to manipulate it. For men we are �taught� from the beginning to manipulate our resources and the more aggressively the better. We like �wargames� while women prefer games that emphasize social interaction. No wonder we scratch our heads in utter confusion when our wives and girlfriends try to subtly interact with us! This is a life skill society never emphasized for men.

Blah, blah, blah. Men and women act differently. What a shocker (yawns). Sorry, but what do women actually WANT? I think Mark might have hit on something when he was looking at his wife's gaming habits. I've known lots of women who love solitaire or freecell, and sometimes building games, or Tetris. I don't know hardly any (grammar?) who like shoot 'em ups or adventure games. They think shoot 'em ups are too much like "guy flicks," (as one called it, comparing my game of Sacrifice (bought, by the way, on the sole recommendation of the Q23 guys!)after refusing to go see "U571" with me) which don't interest them. They like quiet pursuits, with puzzles that don't hurt too much to solve.

Now, I also notice that most guys don't like hard puzzles anymore, either, which helps explain the pain of the adventure game. I blame that on the fact that it's easier to reload a saved game if you die than to get stuck at a puzzle you can't figure out. Path of least resistance, and all that. I did have a girlfriend who loved watching me play Dungeon Keeper 2, but she would never play it herself.

Anyone else got some real-life examples of gals and their games of choice? Maybe we can actually figure this one out right here! Then Mark can take us out to that strip club, and we can congratulate ourselves on our sensitivity (ducking).

"�but what do women actually WANT"
I tried to answer that in my posts Kaz, but you're right�. who wants to read a four page diatribe to decipher that! LOL, Ok Alicia likes�

Myst, Leisure Suit Larry, King's Quest, Pandoras Box and a few other adventure games in that vein. Most have a fair amount of puzzle elements in them.

All traditional games like card games, and Tetris, among others...

She loves most online games, especially Ultima Online! Though she HATED EverQuest! The 'box head people'(as she coined it) or the prevalence of 3D graphics is one of her biggest pet peeves with the industry's current direction.

She also like builders like Caesar 3, Zeus, and Simcity quite a bit. She enjoyed Starcraft briefly but tended to play it like a builder, rarely attacking till the very end.

She enjoyed the Baulder's Gate series and played the Diablo series to death (though strangely not online). She also liked Diablo 2 slightly less...

She also liked a few oddball titles like Lemmings and Worms? Go figure...oh yea and The Sims for about 5 minutes...

LOL, thanks, David! So once again we see builders, "lite" adventure games like LLL and King's Quest, with some fantasy RP thrown in. Still not much in the way of sims, FPS or strategic games. Diablo I'm a little mysterious over, if you will. Though it is one of the few games where the woman (Rogue) ends up wearing MORE as the game progresses, ironically.

Sounds like we should grab some of those soon-to-be unemplyed developers they were talking about on the Nintendo topic. Then we can shop around our idea for a light-style adventure game where you have to quest for elements to build up your kingdom. Hmm...

Hey Mark, any chance on getting any demographic info on people what bought Majesty?

I can ask Hasbro, but I don't know if they are able to track at that level. My guess is they can't.

What do women want? Listen carefully: what women want is to have sex with me.

I think articles like the one referenced aren't worth the bits/atoms they're printed on. Any game with huge sales has crossover appeal by definition. Myst; Sims; RCT; heck even Diablo II.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

I concur with the most common opinions: My wife's favorite game in the world is either the Sims or Caesar 3. (Which, by the way, Mark, you might try and get your wife to play -- I'd bet she'd like it, too!) She also likes RCT. I don't know about all women, but my wife plays games like this because there's not the fear of losing. She hates losing. She avoids anything with fighting or killing, because she's afraid that she'll end up on the wrong end of the sword.

Well, my wife can't stand games in general, because they take me away from her and my son. But she'll watch sometimes, and she is very turned off by the gory games (was very unimpressed with Hitman). She thought the Sims was funny, but didn't play it a lot, and get this, both she and one of her female cousins think the Tomb Raider series is cool.

Once I let her play Tomb Raider and when I was in the other room, I could hear her shouting, "Ah! There's a monster...Oh, it's attacking me! (sound of many gunshots) Yes! I got you!"

Despite all the yammering about Lara's physique, most of the girls I know that actually play the game just sort of ignore that part of it and enjoy the action/adventure elements.

Show of hands please. Who out there can honestly say this...

"My wife's favorite game is Ebay"

*sigh*

"My wife's favorite game is Ebay"

Heh -- not eBay, but my wife loved shopping on the Internet for Christmas the last two years. The Internet needs about 20 million more people like her and then it would be ok.

I enjoy playing all sorts of games, but perhaps that was due to being exposed to them all my life. It may be that the demographics will change when more of the females who grew up with Nintendo and computer games become 'the wife'.

I'd hazard a guess to say that building does tend to win out over destroying as a female tendency. I'll get tired of shooting rockets at people in Quake 3 eventually, but can sit and build cities for hours. The communities for games like Zeus do have a pretty even mix of men and women, which supports one of the statements made above. Most women won't put up with the juvenile behavior and language that many hardcore gaming clans seem to favor, so that community will probably stay male dominated for a long time.

There's no good answers to this topic, because all you can do is make sweeping generalizations, or bring up certain cases. For example, the only game my Mom will play is Shanghai, but I'd hate to see all games just be clones of that trying to appeal to all women.

However, I saw that one of the creatures in Black & White is a bear (her favorite), so maybe I can trick her into playing that with me when it comes out. Anything with a complex control scheme would turn her off, and she just doesn't have the reflexes built up to play FPS or platform games.

"My wife's favorite game is Ebay"

Hear, hear to that! She is into some real games, but MAN! She does love E-bay.

Just a little tidbit I picked up the other day. According to some recent numbers for EQ, 18% of the people who answered the M/F question were Female. Compare that to the fact that 42% of all characters in the game are Female. It makes you think twice when you're checking out how that Dark Elf looks dressed in black leather.

I don't think the question "What do women want?" is really all that valid. Yes, there will be a general leaning towards building games, but that doesn't mean that's all they'll buy. My ex used to play Red Alert all the time. However, she would just build up this huge self defending base and then ask me to come in and finish off her opposition. She could have done it easily, but she found that part boring. On the flip side, she hated Sim City because there was no real opposition to defend against. She loved Pharoh, but Zeus was too simplistic for her (I loved both games, but that's beside the point).

Oh, and she didn't like Majesty, which was another of my favorite games, because she was a control freak who didn't like the fact that her minions controlled themselves.

She loved Pharoh, but Zeus was too simplistic for her (I loved both games, but that's beside the point).

That's odd. I haven't found anyone yet who liked one but not the other. Hmmm...If she likes the complex features, and if you liked them both, you should check out Caesar 3 -- if you haven't already. It was out before both -- and so you can pick it up for ten bucks -- but it's still my favorite, I think...

I've loved the entire Builders series from Caesar II to Zeus. She really loved how the bigger homes required 3 different foods, how you needed to have all those different health buildings, etc. She kept complaining that "It really doesn't matter if I give them wheat or cheese, the houses still stay the same size". Don't ask me. As I said, she's a control freak. :)

Understood. My wife missed out on Caesar II, and we don't have anything newer than Caesar 3, but I've played demos of Pharoah and Zeus, and will be buying them soon. Tropico has my attention, too. I think my wife will really like it. I understand in Zeus you don't have to worry about people looking for workers walking by houses to get them. It'll make things easier, but I kind of liked that, in a sick way...I think I'll miss it.

Yeah, in Zeus as long as a business is within a certain distance of a house, it automatically has employees. None of the old "This building has poor access to employee" messages anymore.

I need to look a lot more into Tropico. I have been looking at that little log on the left for the past month but I need to actually click on it. :)

I'm also looking forward to Startopia. I was really into both of the Dungeon Keeper games and Startopia looks like a spirutual sequel to that series.

Yeah, that's how I found out about Tropico...I clicked the link here. (And they say advertising doesn't work. Pshaw! Mark Asher, I hope you're listening -- I clicked on you sponsor's link!) It looks pretty fine.

So, Jim, which is the best builder? Like I said, just based on demos of Pharoah and Zeus, they all seem fine, but I don't think either of them can top Caesar 3 in my book. I could be wrong, but I've been pretty crazy about it since playing the demo that came with...well, something I got, years ago...

Hey, Sierra just put out that bundle pack. I think it's got Pharoah and Cleopatra in it, and I can't remember what the third was. Caesar III maybe?

- Alan

Yup, it's Caesar 3, with Pharoah and Cleopatra. Looks pretty good, but I'm not sure it's worth what they're charging. I think it's almost cheaper to buy them individually, or at least the same price. I have seen Pharoah and Cleopatra for $20 each, and Caesar is a cheap 9.99. (And well worth every penny, I might add!) So, I guess it's the same fifty bucks either way you spend it. If you've already got one of them, though, it's sure cheaper to pick up the others individually instead of buying the pack. If you don't have any of them, you should certainly get the pack -- today!!

"So, Jim, which is the best builder?"

Truly, I still prefre Caesar III. There are a few enhancements that Pharoah and Zeus added that would be nice to have in C-3, but from a pure game standpoint, it's still the best. It was an actual challenge to get a high class, self sustaining neighborhood built in Caesar III, while in Zeus it's a matter of providing 3 items (Food, fleece, and oil) and adding one or two statues in the area. Zeus is almost too easy to get a great city built.

The one thing I'd still like to see in all of the Impressions city series is a sandbox mode. Sometimes I just want to build a thriving metropolis with no true goal in sight. Sure, have barbarians raid now and then so I have to keep my defenses built up, but none of this all powerful monster stuff like from Zeus.

Caesar 3 has something like that -- the city builder mode. Isn't that what you're talking about?

"It was an actual challenge to get a high class, self sustaining neighborhood built in Caesar III, while in Zeus it's a matter of providing 3 items
(Food, fleece, and oil) and adding one or two statues in the area. Zeus is almost too easy to get a great city built."

Yeah, I agree. Again, I've only played demos of the later 2, but that was my impression as well. And I just can't get enough of Caesar 3.

"Caesar 3 has something like that -- the city builder mode. Isn't that what you're talking about?"

I'm going to have to check this out again. It has been quite a while since I've loaded up Caesar 3. If it does happen to have this, I'll be a happy man.

I think that's what you're talking about. It's all my wife will play. She likes playing, but hates losing, so she doesn't play through the careers, because of "all the pressure of meeting the ratings requirements." She could do it, and I keep telling her that -- she's getting pretty good -- but she refuses. But in the city builder mode, you just select a region and build a city -- no ratings expectations, no demands from Caesar -- just build, trade, and defend, if you're in one of the dangerous provinces. Very cool.

My fiancee and I play Age of Empires II: The Conquerors co-op against the computer, nearly every night (well, we did, until Mr. PlayStation 2 showed up, and now it's all SSX). She also plays and loves RPGs and adventure games, is an EverQuest fan (not quite fanatic anymore), kicked my but in Kengo doing sword fighting, and also likes playing Spades online.


So much for stereotypes . The only thing she hates is wargames, and she shies away from first-persons shooters until she has a lot of practice with them.....

Robert, it sounds like she's quite a keeper!! My wife is getting to be more willing to play games, but we've still got a way to go...

Your fiancee liking computer games will make married life so much easier...

Hmm... she's either a keeper or secretly a man. Have you looked real close for any suspicious scars?

Bob Mayer
Not to be confused with Robert Mayer

"Bob Mayer
Not to be confused with Robert Mayer"

Oh man, we have that Bob Mayer/Robert Mayer thing going again. Will one of you guys take up gardening as a hobby? This is too confusing!

Hehe, she's definitely not a man. I think I can vouch for that.


As for gardening, well, as soon as the umpteen feet of ice and snow melts (oh, around JUNE, say), I can plant the garden).

"Oh man, we have that Bob Mayer/Robert Mayer thing going again."

Hey, I didn't even know there *was* a Bob/Robert Mayer thing going. What gives?

-Tom

It first happened on Usenet. Two Bobs (or Roberts) both alike in dignity and sharing the same last name and passion for games began posting. Imagine the confusion!

That's the story. Not much too it, beyond the name coincidence.

My only question is, which one is Jack Klugman and which one is Tony Randel.

Warning: old TV reference

"My fiancee and I play Age of Empires II: The Conquerors co-op against the computer, nearly every night (well, we did, until Mr. PlayStation 2 showed up, and now it's all SSX). She also plays and loves RPGs and adventure games, is an EverQuest fan (not quite fanatic anymore), kicked my but in Kengo doing sword fighting, and also likes playing Spades online."

So... your wife is just as big a dork as you are? Congraturation!!!

I'd be deeply disturbed if my wife was into the same stuff I am. That would push it way, way over the top.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

p.s. Additionally, I'm going to sally forth from my gleaming fortress of hatred to tell you guys that SSX is a really boring game. I own it, I own a PS2, and they're both collecting dust as I write this. Tony Hawk 2 is ten times the game that SSX is.

"I'm going to sally forth from my gleaming fortress of hatred to tell you guys that SSX is a really boring game."

Thanks for clearing that up for us.



-Tom

Dammit, I had a follow-up comment in that last message, but for some reason, goddamn Discus doesn't read anything between "".

Ah, another satisfied Discus customer. I think I'm tearing up a little here.

Besides, why are you reading this when you could be playing Undying? It's good I tell ya. Real good!

And a patch for Requiem was released today. How's that for serendipity?

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

I'm playing Sacrifice now. A game I think can safely be declared as not a big female-friendly endeavor (to stay on topic). It is fast-paced, violent, hard, and hands you your...pride in a most forthright way.

You know, based on our little research gallery here, has anyone ever made a game where you built card houses? Mock me if you like, but I think it might work...

undying IS a good game. . . though i wish they made it more ss2/thief like. but as it is its a very good game. its basically Wheel of Time mixed with Resident Evil. and it has good scares with the mansion levels!

btw, what Clive Barker wanted in Undying qouted from Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/134969/103-7667685-9579802

"I said, I think we need a younger, sexier hero, somebody who the player will relate to. I suggested this fellow Galloway. I asked Brian to draw someone I'd want to sleep with."

also, i think the hero in Undying is cool, he's like the male counterpart to Cate ARcher. maybe the brits know their characters better. . . hmmm. Galloway is sorta an Xfilish Agent post-WW1 vet, who can use magic!

etc

oh yeah. .. i agree with wumpus on SSX and TH:PS2. yes SSX has AWESOME GRAFX (friend has it for his ps2) . . . but THPS2 on a VGA on DC is very good . . . and just more FUN!

etc

Can't think of any card house games, but Bridge Builder is like a Card Bridge game.. no.. that doesn't sound right. You build bridges, it has nothing to do with cards.

www.bridgebuilder.8am.com
www.bajoraner.de/bridgebuilder
5star.freeserve.com/Games/BuildingSimulators/bridge-builder.html

(one of those links has to work)

Bob Mayer
So which one of us is changing his name?

I know a lot of women who play games, and they don't shy away from violence or action at all. Nor are they "drawn" to games that are more thoughtful and strategic.

In fact, most of the turn-based game junkies I know are men.

What I DO find that women are drawn to are games that are social. Online games where you chat for one, espeicially where you can emote. Maybe the social aspect is what makes card games on the Zone so popular with women?

Even offline games that don't have any interaction with other Real People seem to be more popular with women when they're social, as in The Sims.

I wonder if Bob's fiancee would be as addicted to SSX if he wasn't playing it too (even if not at the same time, then copetitively seeing who can get further in the same home)?

Maybe the seemingly social aspect is why RPGs and adventure games are typically big among women. Maybe it's that you spend more time in faux converstation in those games, rather than because they're not action games?

Come to think of it, most of the games I can think of that are big with girls that AREN'T social in terms of game design usually have some sort of external social aspect, like they're played on a console with 2 or more players at once.

I'm no psychologist, but I think women tend to want to feel "connected" more than men, and games that give them that feeling probably do best.

I think alot of women just get turned off by the guys playing. Ive heard stories ranging from sexual harrasment to guys not even trying to win. Both can be big turnoffs for female gammers.