Okay, what's the next best Toshiro Mifune movie after Seven Samurai? Is there one better? And the first person to say "1941" gets a yari in the eye!

Well, I dig Hidden Fortress too -- especially given that you can see where Lucas got practically every scene in Star Wars from :)

I would say the 47 samurai(or Ronin)

Marcus

I can't really comment since I've only seen
Yojimbo. Mifune and Kurosawa's beautiful filming
was definitely the best part about that film, it
was a bit slow I think. Clint Eastwood doesn't
stand a chance when it comes to being a gritty
western-hero.

Well, there really isn't anything better than Seven Samurai, but almost everything Mifune did with Kurosawa is gold. Yojimbo and Sanjuro are probably the the next best Mifune and Kurosawa films, although the Samurai Trilogy, which wasn't directed by Kurosawa, is excellent as well. Also if you want to see Mifune do some good non-samurai stuff check out Kurosawa's High and Low, which was remade a few years ago as Ransom with Mel Gibson.

One of my favorite Mifune movies, after the Seven Samurai, is Ronin. It's been so long since I've seen it that I really can't say how good the movie is as a whole, but it's really got Mifune in all his back-scratching-with-the-Samurai-sword glory.

Throne of Blood--Kurosawa's re-casting of Macbeth--contains one of the most terrifying scenes I've ever experienced.

Mifune is great in Yojimbo, a much better film than Leone's remake Fistful of Dollars. I'm not a big fan of Sanjuro, it seems Kurosawa's sequel got worse while Leone's kept getting better.

Throne of Blood is good, but beware if you thought (like some critics did) that Mifune was overacting in Seven Samurai -- the last couple of minutes consist only of Mifune running back and forth with an almost comically terrified expression!

And as Robert Harris mentioned, High and Low is another excellent Kurosawa/Mifune movie set in modern times.

Wasn't Throne of Blood his last movie?

About Ronin, is the recent movie of the same name related in any way?

Finally, did Mifune and Charles Bronson do a western together? I seem to remember Mifune chopping up some indians with his katana blade.

I haven't seen the recent Ronin, so I don't know what its plot is. The Mifune movie related to its title quite literally: Samurai without a master who were forced to turn mercenary.

"Wasn't Throne of Blood his last movie?"

No, the movie I was thinking of (I hope it's really called "Throne of Blood"!?) is a black & white film from the 50s. It's got witches and a moving forest and that stuff.

Kurosawa's last movie (or his last great success anyway) was also based on Shakespeare but on King Lear: Ran. A very quiet and intense masterpiece, but without Mifune.

"Finally, did Mifune and Charles Bronson do a western together?"

No idea but that's definitely something I'd like to see!

Mr. Harris mentioned High and Low, and I'll also second that: it's an excellent movie.

I don't think anyone's mentioned Rashomon, so I will. Yet another very good Mifune/Kurosawa. Although Mifune isn't the focus of it, he delivers a very impressive performance.

Mifune did show up in a few American movies, although I'm not sure about the Bronson one. He was the Japanese admiral in Midway, as I recall, and was in a movie called "Hell in the Pacific" with Lee Marvin.

"but beware if you thought (like some critics did) that Mifune was overacting in Seven Samurai"

I had to get accustomed to this in Seven Samurai, not just from Mifune, but from many of the actors playing the farmers as well. I don't know if I'm just being patronizing by assuming it was a matter of the Japanese style, but it didn't bother me. I think anyone who can appreciate Shakespeare can get his head around that sort of larger than life emotion.

You guys are great, BTW! I'm going to track down High & Low first, mainly because I want to see Mifune in something modern. I'm sorry to say that all this time I've thought of him as "the famous Japanese guy that Speilberg used in 1941". Since I don't know a lot of French cinema, Francois Truffaut is similarly "the famous French guy that Speilberg used in Close Encounters". :)

-Tom

Tom, if you have a DVD player you should absolutely get the Criterion Collection edition of Seven Samurai. It features a very insightful commentary by an expert on Japanese film, Michael Jeck. He explains exactly how Kurosawa arranged his shots, expounds on historical and cultural references, gives biographical anecdotes on Kurosawa and Mifune, explains the workings of the Japanese film industry, and so on. I found I could appreciate Kurosawa's work much better once I had listened to the commentary.

The other b/w films I mentioned are also available on Criterion DVDs but without commentary, unfortunately.

Red Sun was the name of the Bronson/Mifune western.

"It features a very insightful commentary by an expert on Japanese film, Michael Jeck."

That's exactly what I did this weekend. Watched it once and then watched it a second time with Jeck's commentary playing. I appreciated some of Jeck's contributions, but he was stretching about an hour of relevant material over a three and a half hour movie. It eventually came down to him essentially narrating the movie -- "And here we see Mifune's character going absolutely wild" or "And now we fade to black". Ugh. By the time the movie was over, Jeck may as well have been calling a baseball game on the radio.

I was also disappointed at some of the stuff he didn't know -- "I don't know if that was a set or not, but if it was a set, it was huge". To be fair, he gave a far more intelligent commentary than what you get on most DVDs (it is a Criterion edition, after all), but there were some disappointing gaps.

-Tom

I'd just like to add a mention for Kagemusha (The Shadow Warrior). Great Kirosawa film! And if I could get away with a Kirosawa film with no Mifune in it, how about Roshomon for an all time classic?

Hey, you know you've made it when you get parodied in a "Johnny Bravo" episode...

-Stuart

"That's exactly what I did this weekend. Watched it once and then watched it a second time with Jeck's commentary playing. "

Bizarre. I did the exact same thing this weekend. I bought the DVD based on Entertainment Weekly's list of 50 best DVDs, which is outstanding.

I agree with your commentary on the.. er, commentary. Jeck came across as hellaciously annoying, and more than a little self-important.

Speaking of a DVD with a great commentary track, try the Criterion Silence of the Lambs. You can't go wrong with Anthony Hopkins, Jodie Foster, and real FBI profilers talking about the movie! And with Hannibal about to be released, all the more timely.

"how about Roshomon for an all time classic"

I need to see that, but it isn't out on DVD. Have you guys seen the most recent modern version-- Courage Under Fire, the 1996 film with Meg Ryan, Denzel Washington, and my personal hero, Lou Diamond Phillips? My wife made me see this movie, and I was shocked how good it really was. Eloquently performed; the elusive nature of truth against the background of the gulf war.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Rashomom DOES have Mifune in it... he's just nearly unrecognizable. He's the bandit.

Ugh. You know, I've been trying real hard not to mis-spell that. Rashomon. There.

The star of Ran and Kagemusha, Tatsuya Nakadai, is up there with Mifune. Check out Sword of Doom or Hideo Gosha's The Wolves. The latter is a great gang film that, to my eye, must have been at least a minor influence on Scorsese.

Hmm, not sure if Mifune was in it by for Kurosawa my two favourites are Dadeka Den, and Dersu Uzula. The second is just spectacular and there are at least 3 (!) different versions/cuts. Keith

My favorite Mifune film is Coyote Ugly. A lot of people panned that film, but I really believed that Mifune was a young woman new to New York City trying to make it in songwriting. He's that good. And looks much better in a halter top than you'd think.

I had a hard time getting used to the acting style of some of Seven Samurai too. As I stuck with it, though, I started to understand the universe I was in. I found some of the villager characters to be irritating, since they seemed to operate from a single emotional base state and that annoyed me from time to time. It was as if entire characters were distilled down to a single facial expression that was almost a mask. This might have been the intention, but at first I found it offputting. There are so many other times, though, when Kurosawa uses only facial expression to wonderful effect, when silence and expression (especially the eyes) convey so much in this film, that I was able to get past this.

I was most conscious of the way the film has influenced other film in the score. I remember thinking, as I watched the film the first time, that John Williams must have watched Seven Samurai before he scored EMPIRE and maybe even TEMPLE. I was also reminded of Bridge on the River Kwai at one point, music wise, but I have no idea as to the chicken and the egg on that and am too lazy to go over to imdb to find out.

Mifune was really a revelation to me when I watched this film. I just loved his freedom, this anarchy of spirit that he showed in this role. I know I'm gonna get smacked for saying this, but at first his work called to mind Kevin Costner in Silverado, for me. Yes, I realize I'm in trouble for saying that. Go ahead and start throwing things. I don't mean that Toshiro Mifune is the Japanese Kevin Costner, or even that Costner was ever good enough to be Mifune-lite. I just mean that, to me, Kevin Costner was an actual actor in Silverado. There was a freedom to his work in that film that made me take notice. Mifune reminded me of that early on in Seven Samurai. Obviously he goes much further than Costner is capable of going. In a single movie Mifune made me a fan.

I've seen little else of what he has done. I tried to watch High and Low once, but couldn't get through it because there was a naked girl in the room.

-Amanpour

P.S. When I got "Yojimbo" from Netflix, a certain fiancee I live with asked if it was a movie like "Boyz 'n the Hood." Not kidding.

Another poster mentioned it above, but I would like to put in another recommendation for the awesome "Samurai Trilogy" featuring Toshiro Mifune as Miyamoto Musashi, the legendary 17th century swordsman. It has some of the best "realistic" sword fight scenes around, and although not directed by Kurosawa is still incredibly well-done. Most importantly it has one of the great confrontations I've ever seen on film - the swordfight on the beach (you'll know it when you see it).

Sharpe

RE: Mifune in Se7en Samurai

"I just loved his freedom, this anarchy of spirit that he showed in this role."

Very well put, Amanpour, even if you went on to completely invalidate your point with the Kevin Costner stuff. Hey, have you seen that Postman? I hear it's really good...

"I tried to watch High and Low once, but couldn't get through it because there was a naked girl in the room."

Uhh, yeah, that happens to me all the time. Yeah. Just the other day in fact. I was trying to watch Grand Illusion, but there was a naked girl in the room, so, yeah, that's what happened.

Sharpe mentioned the swordfighting in one of the Samurai trilogy movies and I have to admit how spoiled I am by John Woo and the guy who choreographed The Matrix and Crouching Tiger. During the climactic hour or so of Se7en Samurai, I was subconsciously expecting the actors to go into their balletic combat routines, because everyone knows that's how they *really* fight in the Far East. But, nope, just a lot of wild swinging and falling in the mud. I felt cheated, like when the guys in the old Westerns just clutch their guts and fall over. Where's the blood?

I guess I'm just too damn contemporary. Why else would I write "Se7en Samurai"?

-Tom

"I have to admit how spoiled I am by John Woo and the guy who choreographed The Matrix and Crouching Tiger"

I was underwhelmed by Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Another victim of too much pre-screening hype. Sigh.

My biggest beef with the movie is the many "flying" combat scenes. They just looked so goofy and unbelievable-- like the bus jump in Speed-- that I had a hard time recovering. People in the audience were actually laughing at this! The combat scenes on the ground were excellent and believable; not sure why the director felt the need to push the movie into the fantasy realm with all the flying razmatazz.

The flying scenes were such a distraction. Here's this good, solid movie, and out of the blue they throw that shit at you. What kept running through my head was: Okay, they have superpowers. I'm cool with that. If they were jumping it would work. Or flying. But they weren't doing either, they were... well, they were swinging their legs while clearly being held up by wires. That's all there was too it. You couldn't see the wires, but they were so in your face it felt like a slap.

Definitely a good flick, but I dunno about the raves. Hard to enjoy a movie when the guys next to you are doubled over in laughter.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

"When I got "Yojimbo" from Netflix, a certain fiancee I live with asked if it was a movie like "Boyz 'n the Hood." Not kidding."

Ha ha! That's great! "Yo, Jimbo!"

Really, I could see that being a Chris Rock, Jacky Chan movie.

Rashomon is cool, almost like a western meets Citizen Kane. what with all the differing flashbacks.

btw, i always took Mifune to be like a Cary Grant/Gregory Peck from Japan, at least in appeal in his earlier films. hes good on his own though, no need for me to compare him to western actors.

also, kinda cool was Boorman's Hell in Pacific, with Lee Marvin and Toshiro Mifune. i just remember the last scene with Mifune madly looking at dead Japanese soldiers in a copy of Life magazine.

speaking of lee marvin, that guy was a pretty good actor. acted for alot of different directors. from boorman to peckinpah to ritchie, though most were of the male agenda. . . still cool movies etc etc. ah yes Prime Cut was a cool movie.

i am RAMBLING. . .

etc

just to continue my rambling of great actors. . . my favorite is Gene Hackman. . . an ole Illinois boy! watch the Conversation . . . prelude to Enemy of the State AND better!!!

etc

High and Low is brilliant, by all means and so far the second best Kurosawa flick I've seen (haven't seen them all yet.. getting there, slowly.)

OTOH, I think the Samurai trilogy (Miyamoto Musashi) is a bit overrated. Yes, the sword-fighting is great. But there's a bit too much of the "one-man-against-impossible-odds" thing especially in the later two episodes, the story is a bit pedestrian and you don't get the same kind of impressive camera work so plentiful in Seven Samurai. Worth seeing, definitely, but I wouldn't put it at the top of my list.

Great recommendations, otherwise. Uh, save for Kevin Costner. :)

"The flying scenes were such a distraction. Here's this good, solid movie, and out of the blue they throw that shit at you."

Actually, the flying dynamics in Crouching Tiger were a staple of Chinese cinema. I remember seeing them at least ten years ago in something called A Chinese Ghost Story (?). To be sure, they were new to most Western audiences, but Ang Lee didn't just throw them in because he thought they looked neat.

BTW, Crouching Tiger would easily be one of my picks of Movie of the Year, but you won't see me haranguing people who think otherwise. :)

In reply to mtKafka: "watch the Conversation"

I agree. I might go so far as to say this is Coppola's best movie, considering that I haven't seen The Godfather.

-Tom

"Actually, the flying dynamics in Crouching Tiger were a staple of Chinese cinema. I remember seeing them at least ten years ago in something called A Chinese Ghost Story (?). To be sure, they were new to most Western audiences, but Ang Lee didn't just throw them in because he thought they looked neat. "

Ah, I get it, the way penis tentacles are a staple of Japanese cinema. ;)

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

re: Tom's favorite movie

"Hey, have you seen that Postman? I hear it's really good..."

How'd you know about the Postman? How'd you know about that?

Amanpour

P.S. Is that what I sound like?

P.P.S. Can I use the naked girl excuse for Bergman films?

In college my roommate and I sat down to watch Seven Samurai, and his girlfriend decided to join us. After a couple of hours, she got up, said, "I'm sick of reading," and walked out.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, Mark Asher wrote...

"Finally, did Mifune and Charles Bronson do a western together? I seem to remember Mifune chopping up some indians with his katana blade."

Found it! "Soleil Rouge", French/Italian co-production, 1971, director Terence Young (of James Bond fame), starring C.B., T.M., Alain Delon, Ursula Andress.

It's on German TV this Friday (called "Rivalen unter roter Sonne" for German readers), that's how I found out about it. :-)

Oh yeah, Ursula looks pretty good in it. I think her clothing gets ripped up pretty good.

"I agree. I might go so far as to say this is Coppola's best movie, considering that I haven't seen The Godfather."

???

"In college my roommate and I sat down to watch Seven Samurai, and his girlfriend decided to join us. After a couple of hours, she got up, said, "I'm sick of reading," and walked out. "

Many people really hate subtitles; especially people who are middling to slow readers. It can be a kiss of death for mainstream, commercial success, which is why dubbing is so common.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

But dubbing would really destroy a film like eg. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. The subtleties of the Chinese language and intonation really made this film. And the great action of course. :-)

Flying characters are a staple of Chinese cinema (Kung Fu pics) as well as Chinese mythology. In a way Crouching Tiger (etc.,) is to these as Star Wars is to Flash Gordon serials.

&

Here's one Tom hasn't thought of:

Toshiro Mifune starred in 1977's MIDWAY
as the leader of the Japanese forces. Also starring Charlton Heston, Glenn Ford, Henry Fonda and Robert Mitchum on the American side. Yes folks, Mifune didn't stand a chance against those odds.

--Crouching Groucho, Hidden Punchline