So what do you think of this game? Will this be an RTS game that that historical war grognards might finally play? It certainly has my interest piqued.

My, my...That's pretty. And, look! The tanks are actually bigger than the soldiers!

It looks promising. I'll be sure and keep a look-out for it. Looks like it will be worth the money...Of course, like Mark said, if Blizzard gets Warcraft 3 out this year -- and they're sure hoping to -- the RTS battlefield will have tough competition all around. Personally, I've still got my money on Blizzard, but I'll be watching this one very closely.

I wonder what will set this game apart from the other RTS entries on the market.

Sure, I'd like to see a game with a wider variety of realistic units. Then again, the precedent hasn't been spectacular, what with the tepid response to both "Force 21" and "Fleet Command."

I'm still waiting for another game that does what "Myth" did, and allows for coordinated team play between a commander and field lieutenants. Imagine a game where one of your teammates was responsible only for air units, and another controlled only ground units. I think the lesson of combined arms would be taught much more effectively.

- Alan

I'm quite impressed by the screen shots, but what I really want to know is; how do they handle air combat? Most RTS games have made air units nothing more than units that cast a shadow and can only be shot by certain weapons. Starcraft was by far the worst offender, in my mind. A battleship that is shown as being a flying building in the cut scenes turns out to be slightly bigger than a tank and has the amazing ability to hover at will and turn on a dime. Only Total Annihilation has come close to having realistic physics for their airborn units.

Since this is based on US Military simulations, I have a feeling you'll have to deal with issues like amunition, refueling, and moral.

Here's hoping they can pull it off.

The supply line idea intrigues me. Has finally someone found a more realistic resource model than the standard "mine and build tanks right on the battlefield" method of current RTSes. A model that is both realistic and still fun and balanced?

No kidding. Realism and RTS have not exactly been dancing partners over the past several years. I'm sure the US Military wishes it could spend $100 in gold and get a full trained soldier in 20 seconds.

From the sounds of it, Real War will require you to spend from a budget of command points to requisition reinforcements. Sounds great, as long as they do better than Force Commander did.

I've always wanted a land combat version of Harpoon, and this sounds similar. In addition to a good armor model (penetration, not hit points, please!), I agree that a good air model is necessary. I like the idea that I might have to maintain a CAP to protect my advancing forces, and watch the loiter time on my strike missions to ensure availability.

So, anyone have thoughts about "Conflict Zone," Red Storm's next RTS? My impression is that they're taking another crack at the RTS genre. I'm interested to see how they handle the camera though, something that plagues most 3D games.

- Alan

Red Storm, IMO, has never been a top-quality development house.

They got very lucky with Rainbow 6, and were in the right place at the right time. I don't expect lightning to strike twice for these guys.

Other than the endless sequels to R6, I would expect crap from these guys, especially based on their previous record. I know Mark really liked Shadow Watch, but almost nobody else did. In fact I can't recall a single positive review of that game. And all of their other products have been widely panned.

But who knows, maybe they'll prove me wrong. But color me skeptical.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

"I know Mark really liked Shadow Watch"

Hey, I *loved* Shadow Watch. Easily in my top ten for 2000. It was warmly received on the newsgroups as well. I think the bad reviews were due to people expecting something like Jagged Alliance. Shadow Watch is a different kind of design that a lot of "play it twice and then review it" approaches couldn't appreciate.

Anyone here *not* like Shadow Watch?

-Tom

Ack, now I feel guilty that I read the reviews and didn't give it a chance. Maybe I'll pick it up next time Best Buy sells it for 19.95.

When I was first reading up about Starcraft, I noticed that all of the units had a wireframe model that would show you how much damage a particular area had taken. When your Goliath was hit, the legs of the wireframe might go from green to yellow representing that it was damaged there. It looked like they were going to actually make damage matter! A tank is hit in the turret a few times and now it can't fire as accuratly. Your marine was hit in the leg so he isn't able to run as fast. But alas, it turned out to just be a "Hey, this looks neat" kinda thing. I'd love to see a game that made damage and hit locations matter.

I don't like Shadow Watch! (I've never played it, I just feel like saying that I don't like it. :P )

"I'd love to see a game that made damage and hit locations matter."

It would be hard for that to be more than an annoying detail to thing about in an RTS game with dozens of units running around. That's the type of detail you want in a game like Mechcommander; I'm not sure you want it in a game like Starcraft.

"I don't like Shadow Watch! (I've never played it, I just feel like saying that I don't like it. :P )"

Hey, Mark, how do we go about banning rabble like Rob Merritt from this forum? :)

-Tom

Hmm. Sorry if I mixed up my Marks and Toms here.

Certainly there's room for opinion-- and I should talk, because I actually liked Trespasser-- but I think the general index on Shadow Watch was consistently negative.

For example-- this review is representative of the 10 or so that I've read.

http://www.cdmag.com/articles/026/169/shadoww_review.html

All I'm saying here is, Red Storm hasn't really created any games that I would even call "good" other than Rainbow 6 stuff. Their games struggle to be average. That's a bad track record, and it seems to be trending downward with stuff like Force 21 and Freedom: First Resistance.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

I would prefere the Shadow Company(with some JA2 flavour) engine for this. In my book it was a real underdog and deserved more success.

About Red Storm. It's strange that a company based on Tom Clancy doesn't offer one single modern sub sim. I thought Tom didn't write about much else :).

Marcus

I know the Adventure game is apparently dead and all, but it just seems like a genre that Ton Clancy would fit into. He write stories in a modern context. I can see him sitting down and writing up a nice mystery/adventure game with plenty of twists and turns. Perhaps some kind of a political thriller where you're trying to uncover a plot to assissinate the prisident.

Either third person or first person would work too. Hell, he could do wonders with the Thief engine for making a nice modern day (or perhaps Cold War era) spy game.

You mean like Goldeneye, but darker?

As for the political thriller/adventure game thing, "Codename: Iceman" kind of ruined it for me.

- Alan

I heard about this game a few weeks ago and it looked pretty promising to me. Or maybe it was the overriding coolness factor. Lets face it it would be sweet to show a Pentagon offical who is really boss!!

"Only Total Annihilation has come close to having realistic physics for their airborn units."

If i remember corectly Dune 2 the first RTS had a unit called the orthinaper (or something like that) it was a light helicopter type thing that you build and after that it makes hit and run type attacks on the bad guy then runs back to the station for refuleing and the like i guess. I would imagine Real War has something to that effect only with designated targets. I had always wondered if my dragons in WC2 ever got tierd. They are only babies you know.

"A model that is both realistic and still fun and balanced?"

It will be interesting to see how they realistcaly balance the most powerful armed forces in the world aginst a rat tag team of terrorists.

"if Blizzard gets Warcraft 3 out this year -- and they're sure hoping to"

I call that just in time for X-mas

" -- the RTS battlefield will have tough competition all around."

I think it will be tough next year even if WC3 dont show, but RW dosnet strike me as a game that would have the same mass appeal anyway.

This game does look interesting, but Simon and Schuster Interactive is better known for games like Deer Avenger and Panty Raider. We'll see....

Isn't this the game with the military pedigree? Actually used to train soldiers, and converted to a game?

So far the only game that gives me the feeling of real bullets and bombs falling and men under pressure in warfare is Combat Mission.

DeanCo--

Yeah, some version of it was first developed for the military, so at some level I'd guess it tries to be very realistic. In other words, I doubt we'll see tanks and soliders popping out of buildings every few seconds.