We finally locked down a babysitter for tonight. This never happens unless my M-I-L is in town, so I'm excited. But I don't see anything at the movies I'm excited about seeing.

It looks like _Hearts in Atlantis_ is my #1 choice.

My wife tells me we can split up and I can see _Training Day_ on my own. Not sure it's good enough to warrent seeing it on my own, though.

Any help appreciated!

Uh-oh.

Based on my experience at the Toronto Film Festival, Hearts in Atlantis is very possibly the worst film ever made by anyone.

By way of contrast, Training Day was one of the very best films at the festival. This includes a field containing a film that had a whole bunch of Czechs, a film described as "Japanese teen horror film meets Andrei Tarkovskii," (which it was, btw) and a documentary about Japanese war crimes. All of those seem like they would have been much better than a cop film with Ethan Hawke and Denzel Washington, but oh, how we can be deceived.

I have a feeling that I'm too late and you've been suckered into Hearts in Atlantis.

'My wife tells me we can split up and I can see _Training Day_ on my own.'

Can you say "Trap?"

I saw _Hearts in Atlantis_ and really enjoyed it. Stephen King movies don't usually do very well on the big screen, but this one was one of the best, IMO. Definately up there with Shinning. Hopkins was excellent, understated, in control. The boy did a fine job, too. If there was one problem, it was that I wanted to know more about the Hopkins character's power and who it was that was actually after him. Even without that, though, it was a great mix of X files intrigue with a coming of age story. What didn't you like about it Bruce?

Go figure on Training Day. I may have to sneak out from work to see it one early afternoon next week. I passed the offer to see it alone because, frankly, Denzel movies have all become so predictable lately--black man manages to overcome, despite being treated unjustly by white man. The first few times it was fine, now it's almost unbearable to watch. When I saw it had Snoop Dog in it too, that was enough for me to pass. What did you like about it, pray tell?

'Can you say "Trap?"'

Time out of the house is really precious these days, so we don't take it so personally anymore if we don't find a movie we both like. I hate to do it, though, because it's not really much of a date when we see different movies.

When they showed the previews for _Windwalker_ with Cage tonight, she told me I was seeing that one alone without my even saying anything. Heh.

I'll post later this weekend or next week about this, since I need to go to sleep. I'll just say that Hearts in Atlantis was the overall thumbs-down of the festival between me, Erik, Ron, and Stefan. When we went to Life As A House, Ron bet Erik that it would be worse than Hearts in Atlantis, but the general consensus was that it was not, so Ron owed Erik a beer afterward. Hearts in Atlantis was just awful. I will try and explain later. Good night.

"Hearts in Atlantis was the overall thumbs-down of the festival between me, Erik, Ron, and Stefan"

Huh. Everyone in agreement. Wow, neither my wife nor I thought it was that bad. Maybe one of the others will weigh in with their thoughts.

I'm really curious what you guys didn't like about Hearts in Atlantis. Also, what did you like about Training Day?

Oh, don't mind him. Bruce has really wierd taste in movies... :-)

Nah, I'll tell you about weird movie tastes.

I had a friend who was a public defender. He once was defending a pornographer against a charge of selling obscene materials. He was arguing that since the sale took place over the Internet, that the community standard to be used in determining if the item was "obscene" was the community standard of the Internet. So, in order to prove that the Internet community was very, very tolerant, my friend had compiled a tape showing the most repulsive stuff he could find for sale over the net. It has been nine years since I saw it, and I still wish I could get that tape out of my head. It made me want to scrub out my cranium with steel wool.

Wow. Did he win the case?

Nope, he lost. It was an interesting theory on a case where the defendant didn't have much of a chance anyway.

Really? That's rather odd, I think. But then, I'm no legal expert!

"Denzel movies have all become so predictable lately--black man manages to overcome, despite being treated unjustly by white man. The first few times it was fine, now it's almost unbearable to watch."

Nothing of the sort happens in Training Day. Denzel is the villain and his performance is just incredible.

"Denzel is the villain and his performance is just incredible."

Agreed. I really liked Training Day, other than the last fifteen minutes, which steered a clever and disturbing movie to a too-familiar climax.

I was consistently surprised by it: Who'd have thought that Antoine Fuqua (Replacement Killers, Bait) could direct a good movie? Who'd have thought Ethan Hawke could hold his own with Denzel? I was just glad it was Eminem, who was originally rumored to be in the Hawke role.

"When I saw it had Snoop Dog in it too, that was enough for me to pass."

Snoop was fine in it. So were Dre and Macy Gray. Other than the inevitable problems of seeing superstars in cameo roles, they were all really good.

When people say they liked Hearts in Atlantis, I wonder if they saw a different movie than I did. I've read that it's been re-edited since the Toronto Film Festival, so maybe that helped. But all I have to say is A) The football scene and B) the return of the football scene. Also: The duelling abuse scenes. Why didn't the director just invent some William Castle-esque device that popped out of my armrest and physically squeezed the tears out of my eyeballs?

-Ron

Meant to write "wasn't Eminem." Obviously. Tired.

-Ron

Snoop has been turning in good performances a lot lately. He was great in Friday (ok, not lately) and I heard good things about Baby Boy. Then again Mr. Calvin Brodis (Snoop) is playing, in all these movies, a stoned out gangsta type variant, which isn't a stretch.

Now, I've read a few negative reviews of Training Day, so I find Dulin and Geryk's (particularly Geryk's) recommendation very intriguing.

Still, I have to ask, Bruce... once you told me the finest American film was Midnight Cowboy, you didn't get an argument from me and you won't now, and then you ranted drunkenly (and we weren't drunk yet) about how all mainstream movies are, and I quote directly, "suck-o". Now, what on Earth is possessing you to want to view Hudson Hawk or Point Break? Hell, even Training Day seems out of character (I assume Wolpaw, Dulin, or Desslock, or all) dragged you there. You were probably screaming about the lack of subtitles...

Reminds me of Woody Allen and his obsession with The Sorrow and the Pity in Annie Hall (<-- best relationship movie ever).

-Andrew

Pish-tosh. Tango and Cash is the best relationship movie ever.

I'll weigh in on Training Day, which is a fine but familiar variation on the buddy cop movie. Good performances, some nice twists, superb pacing, and some very good scenes: the early obligatory 'getting to know you' stuff and the poker game stand out.

There's even some good gunplay with a healthy sense for how lethal guns are. And a memorable car that nicely parallels its driver's state of mind. I love those kind of details.

Denzel Washington does well even with poorly written roles. It's nice to see him doing something that hasn't been sanitized (e.g. Rubin Carter in Hurricane, the investigator in Courage Under Fire). I'm guessing it's an easy prediction for an Oscar nomination.

-Tom

Ok, good. I'll try and get to Training Day then. After Remember the Titans, I didn't want to see Denzel again, and I've never liked Ethan Hawke. I hear he was good in Hamlet, but after Gibson, then Branaugh... I'm Hamlet(ed) out.

Tom, I finally saw American Movie. Very fun, in a sad and pathetic way. That old uncle was a real treasure and, how can any documentarian beat a guy like that stoned out buddy of his? ("I woke up from my O.D. in the hospital, so I reached for the acid in my pocket... you know, cause I was in the hospital..." The Milwaukee-isms made it a treat for my wife as well. We didn't see the DVD, which I hear has the full version of Coven on it), but I'm tempted to just to see the final product. The clip at the end showing the old uncle leaning out the car yelling "Jesus loves yoooou..." killed us.

-Andrew

Sorry about the misplaced parenthesis above. I'm not actually licensed to use parenthesis anymore.

Oh, and the old guy quote was "It's hokay, it's all right, Jesus loves yooou..."

or somesuch.

)-Andrew(

"Kick fucking ass -- a Mastercard."

I'd been meaning to see American Movie for a long time, but I think I have to give Erik Wolpaw credit for finally nudging me over the edge.

Fun detail: Todd Solenz cast Mike Schank (Borchardt's stoned out buddy) in his next movie.

And, oh yeah, Ethan Hawk was bad as Hamlet. I guess he knew the lines fine, but his delivery opted for speed over meaning.

-Tom

"Well... I'm glad the Packers won."

I think we had a conversation about it after your Wisconsin/American Movie Out There column. That was a while ago.

"Fun detail: Todd Solenz cast Mike Schank (Borchardt's stoned out buddy) in his next movie."

Smart. He's got a very real charm. That'd be Happiness? Yes?

-Andrew

"That'd be Happiness? Yes?"

Solenz' last movie was Happiness. The one before that -- his first -- was Welcome to the Dollhouse, one of my favorite 'coming of age' movies next to some weird thing called The Reflecting Skin.

Solendz' next movie, due out this January, is called Storytelling.

-Tom

So his "next movie", the one with Mike Shank, was Welcome to the Dollhouse? Is that it oh cryptic one?

;>
-Andrew

Has anyone seen Solondz's first film? Fear, Anxiety, and Depression? I thought it was pretty bad, but a few people I know loved it.

I'm excited about Storytelling. Even moreso now that the rumors of James Van Der Beek starring in it have been proven untrue. Although James Van Der Beek and Mike Shank would make for pretty inspired casting.

-Ron

Oh!
Thanks Ron, now I understand Tom's message. Storytelling is the next movie, of course I got that. But I misunderstood his original sentence.

"Fun detail: Todd Solenz cast Mike Schank (Borchardt's stoned out buddy) in his next movie."

Since we were talking about American Movie, this led me to believe that American Movie was a Todd Solenz movie. Hell, what do I know? I've only barely read of the man and his work. Even though I didn't remember his name on American Movie, it led me to believe that Happiness must have been the "next" movie Chick was referring to.

Then I just started trying to figure out where American Movie fit in with the list of films Chick rattled off.

Now I get it.

-Andrew

Geeze. What a bunch of film snobs.

Let's discuss the finer subtextual elements of Kevin Smith films.

Snoochie bootches!

GLAAD didn't like Jay And Silent Bob.

"Geeze. What a bunch of film snobs."

Denny,

I think you'll find your thread under the header of "Point Break vs. Hudson Hawk" :)

-Tom, film snob

Thierry,
Actually GLAAD denied that. I saw it at Cinescape, so it must be true.

Interestingly, I recently watched Clerks and Chasing Amy, previously I'd only seen Dogma. Gotta say, Smith is one hell of a writer. Clerks, which reminds me too much of the Gord thread to really think about, was a low budget marvel. While Chasing Amy was a simply amazing script.

-Andrew

"Gotta say, Smith is one hell of a writer."

Ba haa ha ha ha. Hee hee ha ha. Ooh, hee hee ho. Ha ha ha... Ha. Ha. Oh. You're serious.

-Tom, *not* a fan

I am always confused by the love people have for clerks. Its as if you took all the philosophical babbling parts of slackers and had a 5th grader rewrite dumbed down versions of them.

Chet

I enjoyed Chasing Amy. Clerks struck me as My Dinner with Andre, written for Keanau Reeves.

After getting it drummed into my head again and again that Clerks was a great movie, I finally rented it a couple years back. I turned it off twenty minutes later.

The only other Smith movie I've seen is Dogma (which had some moments but wasn't that great) but I've read his comic book writing and his original script for Superman and I classify them under the heading "crap".

Well,
in defense of my opinion of Smith's writing in the films I've actually seen I could reference David Ansen of the New Yorker and his continued praise of those scripts.

But I am not going to do that. Instead I'm just going to mention that I *could* do that, if I wanted to, and simply let the matter lay there.

I agree with Harms about his comic book writing though. And I'm always glad to give Chick a good laugh.

-Andrew

Smith? He doesn't claim hi drama or anything. I liked Chasing Amy and Clerks. Dogma was okay. I haven't seen the new one. Mallrats I didn't like at all.

Still, there must be something to his flicks. I hear the Jay&Silent Bob movie had more cameos per minute than just about anything ever made. Kinda odd for all those folks to want in on a niche film.

Don't mind Tom. He's just demonstrating his highbrow boo-jwa-zee movie snobbery. I do have to admit that I am amazed at where he gets all the time to play all these games, see all these movies, write reviews and still attend festivals. He's either a perpetual motion machine or the energizer bunny, near as I can tell.

"Gotta say, Smith is one hell of a writer."

He's great at writing snippy dialogue between slackers. His movies meander, though.

"While Chasing Amy was a simply amazing script."

Agreed. Chasing Amy is a wonderful script. One of the best of that year (other good ones of that year: The Apostle, In The Company of Men, Sweet Hereafter...um...let's see what else...Titanic).

For those who just laugh at such a statement about the merits of Chasing Amy, I offer this wisdom from one of the seminal cinematic events of our time:

"We mock what we don't understand."

Amanpour

See? You proved my point. Film snobs. :-)

Kevin Smith's flicks are FUN. Hell, I even enjoyed Mallrats.

Life can't all be Kurosawa...

Why are you people debating the questionable merits of "Hearts in Atlantis" and Kevin Smith's lack of talent when "The French Connection" is now available on DVD? Shut up and get thee to a store. ;-)

BTW, you can also get the sequel. Which is underrated, IMHO. That conclusion is worth the price of admission all by its lonesome.

"Tom, *not* a fan"

I'm with Tom on this one. I don't really understand the fascination. I want my movies smart or dumb, not the latter that thinks it's the former. And anyone who can make Alan Rickman look like an incompetent actor should have his/her DGA membership obliterated.

"See? You proved my point. Film snobs. :-)"

Am I film snob because I referenced the vaguely european sounding star of Dawson's Creek and Varsity Blues, Mr. James Van Der Beek? If so, then count me in!

-Ron

Happiness wasnt at all about Happiness! I wasnt "happy" watching it. Except maybe that Russian immigrant scumbag, he was hilarious!

"YOU.... LIGHT UP MY LIFE!!!!"

etc

"We mock what we don't understand."

Strangely enough, Amanpour, we also mock things that are ridiculous. Go figure. :)

"Why are you people debating the questionable merits of "Hearts in Atlantis" and Kevin Smith's lack of talent when "The French Connection" is now available on DVD?"

Hey, Brett! Glad to see you here. And, yes, you have a point RE: French Connections 1 and 2. I haven't seen the sequel in many years, but I recall being really impressed.

"Except maybe that Russian immigrant scumbag, he was hilarious!"

Played by Richard Harris' son, Jared. Who I just saw as Andy Warhol in I Shot Andy Warhol, a very strange movie that reminded me only that Lili Taylor is *really* good.

I wanna someone to make a buddy cop movie with Lili Taylor and Janeane Garofalo. Or with Harry Dean Stanton and M. Emmett Walsh. I can't decide which would be better.

Does anyone here pick their toes in Poughkeepsie?

-Tom

"I wanna someone to make a buddy cop movie with Lili Taylor and Janeane Garofalo. Or with Harry Dean Stanton and M. Emmett Walsh. I can't decide which would be better."

Hard to say. However, the M. Emmett Walsh one would be more miraculous since he's dead.

I finally saw Enemy at the Gates which was talked about here awhile back. On the DVD, there's a whole bunch of interviews with cast and behind the scenes stuff. They BUILT that entire movie as a set...I was blown away. The Red Square charge at the beginning, the Volga crossing...all of it...sets. They likened it to Titanic in sheer scale and as they showed the people building it, that was easy to see.

Too bad the film is marginal. It's got some good performances, though Ed Harris is really subdued. It's also kind of hokey to have everyone speaking with British accents. My favorite movie about Soviets spoken in English is The Hunt for Red October. They did the translation right in that one. Sean Connery and everyone else on board is speaking Russian with subtitles at the beginning, then the camera zooms in to his lips and as it does he goes from Russian to English. That was cool and helped make the transition. "Enemy" just didn't even try. The romance is forced, too. What could have been a top war movie was hurt by too much Hollywoodization.

--Dave

Brett Todd shows up babbling about the French Connection DVD on the day after The Godfather hits stores....

I love the French Connection. I like Friedkin's early work. I liked the sequel. But, even if it does contain the haphazard third installment, the Corleone package is an offer I can't, er, turn down.

I'll have to revisit Mr. Doyle on a later date.
-Andrew

"However, the M. Emmett Walsh one would be more miraculous since he's dead. "

Did Emmett Walsh die recently? Or are you thinking of J.T. Walsh? Are they both dead?

And why the anonymous post? I could understand that on some of the other threads where standing behind an opinion takes some guts...but here, well who cares if you like a crappy movie. Heh, we all have our favorite dopey flicks.

M. Emmet Walsh is alive and well. Well, alive, at any rate. Anonymous is thinking of Abe Vigoda.

-Tom

Indeed, Abe Vigoda is undead. Has been since 1979. A zombie, but thankfully not a brain or flesh eater, this has preserved his natural charm.

-Andrew

"My favorite movie about Soviets spoken in English is The Hunt for Red October. They did the translation right in that one. Sean Connery and everyone else on board is speaking Russian with subtitles at the beginning, then the camera zooms in to his lips and as it does he goes from Russian to English. That was cool and helped make the transition."

John McTiernan stole that from Stanley Kramer who did a similar move in Judgment At Nuremberg. And actually, if memory serves, the camera zoomed in on the political officer's mouth (Peter Firth?) and on the word "Armageddon" pulled back out. You can't really blame McTiernan for not zooming in on Connery's mouth since what he was speaking in that movie was hardly Russian.

"You po-roooskeeee."

Amanpour

Agh! Godfather's out! Thanks for the reminder, Bub.

Well, for now you have to buy it in a Collector's Edition that includes the 3rd movie. Kind of a deterrent, that. But the other extras look great, and the first two films are worth the price anyway.
Welcome, Todd.
-Andrew

I just wanted to add--

I also think Kevin Smith movies suck. Clerks was reasonably amusing at the time (1994?), but I nearly gouged out my eyes watching Mallrats. Haven't seen Chasing Amy, but my wife saw it and said it sucked, and I'll take her word for it. I decided to give the guy one last chance with Dogma and.. it's just laughably bad. Well, except for that scene with what's-her-name as a stripper dancing to New Edition's "Candy Girl". That part rocked.

Anyway, I've pretty much concluded that if Kevin Smith is the writer/director, it's automatically crap.

(Blink)

Wumpus just agreed with Tom about something. Did I miss something?

"Does anyone here pick their toes in Poughkeepsie? "

Oh my god! Flashback time! Was that line actually in the movie, or just the Mad magazine parody?

I'd agree that both French Connection 1 and 2 are great (hey there, Brett!) ---2 is way underrated, and my suspicion, especially compared to the shit-ass crappy action movies of the late 80s and 90s, is that it would hold up even better now.

Also: I think I am in the world's smallest cult (of one) that loved Friedkin's next movie, Sorceror--a remake of the French film "The Wages of Fear." Yes, yes, film snobs, the original is fantastic---but Friedkin's remake, to me, was just balls-out weird and great in its own way, w/a great Tangerine Dream soundtrack and a memorable performance by Roy Schieder.

Jeff
(who laughed extremely hard all the way through Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back)

The "pick your toes line" is from the actual movie.

And you're not alone on Sorceror, Jeff. It was one of the first DVDs I bought (fullscreen version only -- boo!) and I *way* prefer it to Wages of Fear.

-Tom

Yeah, actually I prefer Sorceror to Wages of Fear too. I was just too wimpy to come right out and say it. I don't know why that movie was so underrated--the whole prologue, showing how all the main characters ended up there, was simply fantastic. But--ugh!--fullscreen only--I may have to hold out on the DVD.

And while I'm here, did Zoolander really suck that bad? I really like Ben Stiller, so I was predisposed to wanna see that one.

Jeff

Well, Jeff, you enjoyed Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, so that puts you in a completely different category than any of these guys...

Go see Zoolander, if you want. Don't let Tom Chick talk you out of it!*

*Personally, I haven't seen it OR Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, but they both look funny, and I'll probably get around to seeing them eventually.

"And while I'm here, did Zoolander really suck that bad? I really like Ben Stiller, so I was predisposed to wanna see that one."

Yeah, I used to have that same predisposition to see Ben Stiller movies. I'm even a big Cable Guy fan.

But then I saw Zoolander.

Yes, it's really that awful. Don't do it, Jeff. Please.

-Tom

You were predisposed to see Ben Stiller movies??

I didn't think you watched movies that were "fun."

So, Tom does have a whimsical side.

Chick: "I'm even a big Cable Guy fan."

Wow. Tom. Wow. This sentence made me so happy. I'm so tired of defending this movie. I'm going to start crying.

I have a copy of the original screenplay, with the original ending that was deemed "too dark." The original ending is great, and would have probably made the film get the recognition it deserves anyway.

If you want, I can figure out a way to loan it to you. It's funny.

"Yes, it's really that awful."

I liked Zoolander. I thought Ben Stiller was a bit weak, but Will Farrell was funny and so was Owen Wilson. Some huge stretches were really unfunny, but I laughed enough to make it worthwhile. "Am I on crazy pills?" I also liked the little reference to Kumar.

-Ron

I've spent the past years of my life convincing people that Cable Guy was the best movie of that summer. I watched it again recently and it just reaffirmed to me how good it is. This was before Jim Carey's schtick was trite (to me, at least). Porno Password? That's genius! But porno Password with your *Mom*? That's *fucking* genius.

Cable Guy was a great riff on the Single White Female your-buddy/your-stalker genre. It put Stiller on the radar for me.

I've heard about the darker ending and I'd love to read it. I'd really like to see that script sometime, Ron. Drop me an email ([email protected]).

"I liked Zoolander. I thought Ben Stiller was a bit weak, but Will Farrell was funny and so was Owen Wilson."

Stiller was awful. He was trying to do Mike Meyers. That's not his thing. His thing is Neurotic Everyman. I've never thought of him as doing characters in sketch comedy. Now I know why.

Yes, Will Farrell was really funny. It's starting to dawn on me that he's one of the funniest things Saturday Night Live has had going.

As for Owen Wilson, I was more pained at how under-used he's been lately. The Haunting. Meet the Parents. Now this. I really like Owen Wilson. The Owen Wilson from Bottle Rocket and Minus Man. I watch him in fluff like Zoolander (and, yes, Shanghai Noon) and I just think about the wasted potential.

Not that I didn't laugh in Zoolander. But, hell, I laugh at all kinds of stuff. I'm easy to amuse, but that doesn't necessarily make for a worthwhile movie to me. Especially considering how funny I think Ben Stiller normally is. Zoolander struck me as a gratuitous vanity project. Stiller doing a goofy character. His wife. His friends. His dad. All the celebrity cameos. And no sign of a good script...

-Tom

"So, Tom does have a whimsical side."

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't let that get around, Murph. :)

-Tom

Oh, don't worry!! You're secret's safe with me!

D'oh! I did not just type "you're" when I meant "your," did I? Crap.

Seriously, Tom, I was really starting to think that every movie you liked had to have something...well, deeper. Personally, my ideal movie is one that I can sit down, turn my brain off, and get a good laugh (and pretty girls don't hurt!) Then I come here, and hear guys like you and Geryk (no offense meant by comparing you two) who just analyze movies to death...

I'm kinda relieved to know that you can, occasionally, enjoy a mindlessly "fun" movie.

I hate to say it, because I'm sure the film cognoscenti here at Qt3 either haven't seen it or will consider it dreck for some obscure reason...but if you like Owen Wilson, you MUST see Shanghai Noon with him and Jackie Chan. Great, great fun...

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0184894

--Dave

Whoops...missed Tom's reference to Shanghai Noon... never mind him. :)

--Dave

Whoops...missed Tom's reference to Shanghai Noon... never mind him. :)

--Dave

Ok, my bungling is done here.

--Dave

Ok, my bungling is done here.

--Dave

Never seen Cable Guy but now I'mo put it on the Must Rent This Weekend list. Is Ben Stiller in this movie, or did he just direct it? I guess I could look this up on the, what's it called, "Information Superhighway," but I'm too lazy.

Dang--I really wanted Zoolander to be good. The preview looked funny to me. But, I do see Tom's point and it has me worried--Stiller really is best as "neurotic everyman"--I can see that he might not have the skillz to branch too far away from that.

And Wil Farrell was surprisingly funny in Jay and Silent Bob---until this movie, I thought of him as just another in the roster of current unfunny SNL "comedians"---but he really displayed some good comic talent. Now I think he's just another victim of horrible SNL writing.

--Jeff

"Also: I think I am in the world's smallest cult (of one) that loved Friedkin's next movie, Sorceror--a remake of the French film "The Wages of Fear."

Hey, Jeff. Oddly enough, Wolpaw and I flaked out the last night of E3 at Chick's place and watched his copy of "Sorceror." Never seen it before, but I liked it. At least to an extent. I don't know if it needed quite so many close-ups of grim determination.

In regards to Ben Stiller and sketch comedy -- ever watch the old Ben Stiller Show? Comedy Central was running it a few years ago. Only something like a season's worth of episodes, but some of them were fantastic. Great cast, though I can only recall Janeane Garofalo. I particularly remember this one sketch, a takeoff of Lassie called "Manson." In black and white, with Charlie running around a farm spouting apocalyptic insanity and people interpreting it as stuff like, "What's that, Manson? Billy's fallen in the well!"

I liked Cable Guy a lot, despite the always irritating presence of Matthew "Me and the Monkeys" Broderick.

"Also: I think I am in the world's smallest cult (of one) that loved Friedkin's next movie, Sorceror--a remake of the French film "The Wages of Fear."

Hey, Jeff. Oddly enough, Wolpaw and I flaked out the last night of E3 at Chick's place and watched his copy of "Sorceror." Never seen it before, but I liked it. At least to an extent. I don't know if it needed quite so many close-ups of grim determination.

In regards to Ben Stiller and sketch comedy -- ever watch the old Ben Stiller Show? Comedy Central was running it a few years ago. Only something like a season's worth of episodes, but some of them were fantastic. Great cast, though I can only recall Janeane Garofalo. I particularly remember this one sketch, a takeoff of Lassie called "Manson." In black and white, with Charlie running around a farm spouting apocalyptic insanity and people interpreting it as stuff like, "What's that, Manson? Billy's fallen in the well!"

I liked Cable Guy a lot, despite the always irritating presence of Matthew "Me and the Monkeys" Broderick.

The Ben Stiller show had Stiller and Garofalo, it also featured Andy Dick and the taller half of the Mr. Show team. One of the writers (maybe producer) was Judd Apatow, creator of Freaks and Geeks and now, Undeclared.

That show lasted a season, but launched many careers.

-Andrew

"I don't know if it needed quite so many close-ups of grim determination."

Sorceror's one of those movies that probably has a lot of impact on me because of the age at which I saw it. I thought Roy Scheider was the coolest thing, because he was from Jaws. As I got older, I think I appreciated it even more. There was something so, well, "teenage angst" about being stuck in a tropical third world backwater shanty town: 'Yeah,' I probably thought, being a standard-issue alienated teen in Arkansas, 'I know just how they feel!'

It is one of those great existential 70s movies, for me right up there with Taxi Driver. Not as nuanced, because it's not as indepth a character study, but just as haunting. And it really does have a great narrative structure. I would love to be able to see it again for the first time, with no idea why we're going from Israel, to Paris, to New York, to South America.

Plus there were those amazing trucks, which appealed to the part of me that liked Road Warrior. There's something viseral in the connection men have to cars. Those trucks were beat up, but tough. They had personality. And they braved amazing perils. I still think the crossing of the rope bridge scene defies physics. The fact they did that is as amazing to me as Werner Herzog dragging a showboat over a mountain. 'Look ma, no special effects!'

Useless trivia: anyone know the significance of Sorceror's title?

-Tom

"I thought Roy Scheider was the coolest thing, because he was from Jaws."

I can't recall how many bad movies I sat through because I felt this way too.

-Andrew

I had the same experience with Sorcerer. As a young moviegoer at the time, I just had no idea that movies could be that visceral and intense--and the narrative structure blew me away. That scene on the bridge, by the way, I still think as one of the most suspenseful scenes in any movie *ever*. And the Tangerine Dream score is single-handedly responsible for getting me into electronica.

Sorcerer's title: isn't it one of the names of the trucks?

>I thought Roy Scheider was the coolest thing, because he was from Jaws.

He was the coolest thing back then -- after French Connection, Sorcerer and (especially) Marathon Man.

Heh, when a bunch of us were at Chick's during the E3, the one DVD that we had to pop in (and watch in its entirety) was Sorcerer.

Stefan

Sorcerer is the name of one of the trucks, but there's even more detail about it in some dippy novelization of the movie I read when I was a kid.

In one scene, there's a near riot when the bodies of the oil workers killed in the explosion are brought into town. The novelization goes into detail about why the townspeople are so desperate to get the bodies. Local legend says that an evil sorcerer goes through the town at night and resurrects the bodies. The townspeople have to do these rituals to ward off the sorcerer.

Hence the truck's name. A second chance at life, but an ultimately hollow and meaningless chance. Something like that. I don't know if this is something that was in the script, but I don't remember any such thing in Wages of Fear. It would also explains why the movie opens with that Exorcisty demon face.

-Tom

Cable Guy? Ah, okay, I now have a new respect for you guys.

And I can sleep better knowing that I'm not the only person who really got a kick out of The Cable Guy. Phew.

Loved The Ben Stiller Show... Although it launched a nearly pathological Janeane Garofalo obsession. I actually gave Janeane my phone number in San Francisco the day before I proposed to my wife.

Alas, she never called... No big deal -- she was just my backup in case Dawn said no. :)

You know why she didn't call? "Dude, I've got a lot of tables."

My wife saw Cable Guy when I was on a trip and told me how good it was. I was skeptical because of all the negative press I had read, but.. it really is a great comedy. In this case the buzz was dead wrong.

It is disappointing that Zoolander is so hit-and-miss. You'd think that Stiller could come up with something a little more "edgy" than "models are stupid". Although I do want that teeny-tiny cellular phone. Unlike Tom, I'd say this movie is worth seeing if you like Stiller's work. Just keep your expectations in line.. this is no "Meet The Parents" or "Cable Guy". It's more along the lines of "Stuart Saves His Family."

Also you can add another vote for Will Farrell. The guy is a riot in everything he's ever appeared in-- frequently outshining the stars in bit parts. Get this man a starring role in a comedy ASAP!

Green: "until this movie, I thought of him as just another in the roster of current unfunny SNL 'comedians'"

I don't understand the bashing of the current SNL. I think the last two or three seasons have been the most consistently funny in the show's history.

Will Farrell alone makes it worthwhile, but Maya Rudolph is great (that "Donatella Versace sings children's songs" skit was really good), Tracy Morgan is great, Darrell Hammond is funny. Too bad Jerry Minor left - he was hilarious on Mr. Show and it's too bad he was never utilized on SNL. There are still a bunch of good people on it, and the last half-hour - when it basically becomes the Will Farrell show - is usually always good.

On the contrary, the "classic shows" aren't that funny anymore. At least to me. The skits are really long, the recurring characters aren't that funny (and it's basically only recurring characters). If you can see the unedited versions, they're even worse.

Blashpemy, I know. And I'm honestly not being a troll.

-Ron

Well, I have to admit that my attitude is knee-jerk and not really based on lots of viewing. I just feel like every time I turn it on I say that woman sniffing her armpits, or Chris Katan doing something incredibly unfunny--and I turn it off. I haven't committed myself to a full episode in years, literally. So I couldn't even really identify the current cast.

Essentially what I have here is Old Man Attitude. "It was funnier back when I used to watch it!" Which I acknowledge may be full of shit. But I can't help it. And hey, I did say I changed my mind about Wil Farrell.

Um....that should be "I SEE that woman"

duh. editing.

Damn, forgot about Chris Katan. You're right, the show sucks. Seriously. He's a black hole of comedy. I take back everything I said, except that Will Farrell is funny.

-Ron

I tried to find on the net that Miller Lite radio ad Ferrell does right now. The one where he discusses how dorked out it is to whip out the cell phone in a bar. "dial 1-800-you're-a-KNOB"... heh heh...now that's funny. :)

--Dave

What, you do not like the Mango?

TiVo is the best thing that has ever happened to SNL. Wait until Sunday morning and watch the funny parts in 30 minutes or less. (40 if there's a decent musical guest..)

You guys are making me want to hunt down a copy of Sorceror and watch it again. I was so wrecked the night we watched it at Tom's that I don't think I was in the right frame of mind to give it a real chance. Jeez, though, Jeff. Tangerine Dream? Sweet Christ.

As for that Roy Scheider stuff...me too. I've gone years thinking that I was the only one, but it seems like there's a generation of us who thought he was cool because of Jaws. Like your depiction of the way that you identified with Sorceror, Tom, I think we all identified with Scheider's role as Brody, this easy going guy who came out on top despite being in way over his head. Who hasn't been in a situation equivalent to the "scar comparison" scene on the Orca? Expecially as a kid.

I don't know about sitting through too many bad movies of his, though, Andrew. I liked Jaws 2 (weak spot, I know, but I still remember seeing it in the theatre as a kid), Blue Thunder, and 52 Pick Up, at least. And of course Scheider was very good in The French Connection, as well.

Where is Scheider these days? Shouldn't he be a grumpy grandfather in a sitcom by now?

Liked him in Jaws. Sorceror I saw in the theatres when it was first out but it was too slow-paced for me back then -- I was still a kid. I was like, Jesus, either get over the bridge or blow up, but *do* something!

Is Roy Scheider alive?

"Jeez, though, Jeff. Tangerine Dream? Sweet Christ. "

LOL. Hey now! My musical tastes are all over the map. This is but one tiny corner. I dig that hypnotic, repetitive stuff. I'm having a major Kraftwerk lovefest right now too. So sue me!

Anyway: that soundtrack helped make Sorcerer what it is--don't you think?

SeaQuest DSV may have sunk Scheider's career. I never watched it, but, talking dolphin and all that...

-Andrew

'SeaQuest DSV may have sunk Scheider's career. I never watched it, but, talking dolphin and all that...'

Whenever conservatives fly into a tizzy about how unspeakably horrible and leftist The West Wing is, it's always fun to bring SeaQuest as an example of how much worse television can be.

>Is Roy Scheider alive?

Sure he is. He just redubbed his voice-over for the DVD version of Paul Schrader's Mishima, one of my favourite films.

Stefan