I got caught up watching the 1959 film "Pork Chop Hill" on Sunday during Turnet Classic Movies' Memorial Day war film marathon. It's with Gregory Peck and directed by the guy who directed All's Quite on the Western Front. Even though it's an anti-war movie by all means, there's a lot of riveting combat sequences. Perhaps the most riveting comes near the end as the last surviving members of the company barricade themselves against a Chinese flamethrower.

It's no Saving Private Ryan in terms of realistically showing violence on the battlefield but for its day it was pretty dang stark. And it shows some of the madness of the battlefield, a rarity in those days.

Anyway, it's about the best Korean War movie out there. And I sometimes think that if the U.S. and U.N. hadn't intervened, my dad would never have met my Korean mom in the late '50s. And I wouldn't be here to type this. Food for thought. :)

The Bridges of Toko-Ri (1954-55) is another good Korean war flick, based on James Michener's novel. William Holden plays a U.S. Navy fighter pilot (flying F9F straight-wing jet Panther).

This goes the Pearl Harbor route of having a romance between Holden and Grace Kelly, but it's not too cheesy. :) And Holden battles with his conscience over participating in the war, being called back into service from his job as a lawyer.

The film won an Oscar for its then cutting edge special effects, which featured some really well done miniature work spliced with some real footage of Panther jets and F4U Corsairs (used for ground support during the war). The final sequence is quite riveting and showcases Panthers, Migs, Corsairs and a helicopter. I'll shut up in case someone actually goes out and sees this. :)

Das Boot. I mean, I actually felt bad for the U-boat guys. Plus it's got pre-Wing Commander Jurgen Prochnow.

- Alan

As a contrast to Pearl Harbor, how about two WW2 films that managed to be dramatic while sticking to the facts and not adding a hokey romance: The Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far.

>while sticking to the facts and not adding a hokey romance: The Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far.

Agree with you on Bridge Too Far. Longest Day is notoriously inaccurate, historically.

"Longest Day is notoriously inaccurate, historically."

Indeed. It was just 24 hours, just like the rest of them. ;)

Wouldn't it be great if some non-sappy director could make a film about WWI flight combat? Lots of great true stories to draw from...

-Andrew

The old 1930 film, Hells Angels, was amazing. Simply incredible footage of WWI fighters, bombers (something left out of most films involving WWI air combat), and more. You can see cribbed footage from that old movie in some later films. Howard Hughes spent $500,000 (major money in those days) to purchase and recondition almost 90 WWI fighters and bombers for the flick. 137 pilots were used. He also bought a zeppelin that he could attack and burn in the film. For the ground battles, he hired 1700 extras.

It was originally filmed as a silent film, but sound was introduced while he was making the picture, so he reshot most of the speaking parts (including recasting the female lead, thus introducing Jean Harlowe to the world.) Hughes shot about 3 million feet of film, and used only about 1% of that in the final cut.

The result is simply awe-inspiring. It was close enough to the actual war, wrt time, that the realism lacking is present that is lacking in movies such as "The Blue Max."

um - edit that last line in my previous post to "...that the realism is present that is lacking in such movies as the Blue Max."

I'm so pitiful without an editor. ;)

Patton has some terrific WWII tank battle scenes. The only trouble was, as a 1970 flick, a lot of the supposed German tanks are U.S. M-60 tanks with German emblems and some fake add-on armor. I sort of hate myself for complaining about that sort of thing. :D

Couple other 1940s WWII flicks of note were John Wayne pics (with less of the rah rah than most) -- They Were Expendable (a solemn flick about PT boats fighting a losing battle in the Phillipines just after Pearl Harbor); and Sands of Iwo Jima, for which Wayne got his first best actor nomination as a hard-nosed drill sergeant training troops for the Iwo Jima assaults.

Expendable has some exciting scenes of PT Boats battling destroyers (shown mostly in miniatures) and fending off Japanese seaplane fighters.

>>War movies -- 'good' ones

Some people liked "Stalingrad."

I'd also recommend Wajda's "Ashes & Diamonds."

Hmm. Good war movies? I'm partial to Memphis Belle for some reason. Saving Private Ryan is a given, but I think Speilburg's Empire of the Sun is better. Probably my favorite WWII movie. Bridge Over the River Kuai is, of course, brilliant.

What's the name of that one set during WWI about a German unit starring Ernest Borgnin? Saw that one in school and loved it.

Aside from the World Wars, I thinkg Glory is fantabulous. And Three Kings is the best (only?) Persian Gulf war movie out there.

Brad Grenz

BTW, I'm focusing on older films cause I think most forums I hang out at have a lot of puppies who think war movies don't date back before 1985. :)

And "good" is simply a little cheap shot at Pearl Harbor. :)

"What's the name of that one set during WWI about a German unit starring Ernest Borgnin? Saw that one in school and loved it."

I think that was a remake of "All Quiet on the Western Front." Very good, indeed. As was the original.

Bruce you are my man! Ashes and Diamonds is a very good movie. Wajda (Polish cinema in general) is underrated. They seemed more honest and less "academic" minded than the French New Wave. Maybe it was Polands step between the red curtain and the west, crossed between two mindsets...

Anyway Wajda's films Canal, Generation, and Ashes and Diamonds form his WW2 trilogy... all pretty good films.

Too many American war films degenerate into flag waving (which isn't bad but doesn't tell the whole truth imo). Ones like Pekinpah's Cross of Iron (sorta heavy handed but still very good), Platoon (Stone without all the editing), Full Metal Jacket/Dr Strangelove (strangelove possibly being the best interpretation of an american view on patrotism!) also his paths of glory was Kubirck having a "relentless" WW1 battle sequence pre SPR... meaningless meat grinding battles. also, recently, Kurosawa's Ran (more a tragedy), recently Thin Red Line (poetic), SPR (the Jurasic park of war movies), A Walk in the Sun resembles PLatoon and SPR alot, was a mid 50's movie...

anyway, Pearl Harbor is a tv movie of the week compared to these movies. forgettable...

and remember there is no fighting in the war room!

http://www.indelibleinc.com/kubrick/films/strangelove/

I enjoyed Flattop!, with Sterling Hayden. The movie is of course about aircraft carrier pilots in WWII. It used a lot of real gun-camera footage for the action and is a typical WWII flick but if you are into Naval Aviation it's worth a look. Plus, The Final Countdown is a lot of fun, a Twilight Zonish story about time travel and Pearl Harbor. It does have a slight hint of a love story but it's not too bad.

Here's a dirty dozen list of my favourite war movies, generally in order of preference:

1. Gallipoli
2. Bridge on the River Kwai
3. Das Boot
4. A Bridge too Far
5. Apocalypse Now
6. Breaker Morant
7. The Thin Red Line
8. Battle of Britain
9. Midway
10. Paths of Glory
11. All Quiet on the Western Front (1930s version)
12. Full Metal Jacket

Lawrence of Arabia was a near miss.

I also loved the battle scenes in Saving Private Ryan's battle scenes (the concluding one, in addition to the acclaimed introduction, aside from some of the typically goofy Spielberg characterizations) and most of Platoon.

No Patton? I thought Patton was a great movie.

"also, recently, Kurosawa's Ran (more a tragedy)"

Well, you do know what Ran was modelled after, right?

Also, I remember reading that Spielberg specifically cited Ran in terms of how he approached filming the battles scenes for SPR.

---

Quote:

Well, you do know what Ran was modelled after, right?

---

>>Well, you do know what Ran was modelled after, right?
>Three's Company?

Ran, Lola Ran
by Billy Shakespeare

Patton was a notable omission from my list - it should have been included, probably about 7th or 8th on that list of my preferences.

Stefan

Good list, Stefan. One I might quibble with is Midway. I've seen it with a few people who were not familiar with the battle and they all said it was impossible to follow. From my perspective, that rock-dumb inter-racial romance and Heston's fictional character all but sank it. They did a great job with Rochefort's Hypo operation though.

A few I would include on my personal favorites list:

Twelve O'Clock High
The Dam Busters
The Longest Day
That Hamilton Woman
One of Our Aircraft is Missing
They Were Expendable
Command Decision
Henry V (both the Olivier and Branaugh versions)

Another movie, one I saw as a kid so I may remember it as being better than it is -- The Blue Max. Probably not a good movie, but it may have some of the best WWI dogfighting scenes in any movie.

Mark, run out and rent Hell's Angels (1930).

Hmm..lessee....(clears cobwebs)

In no particular order:

Cross of Iron
Bridge Over the River Kwai
Laurence of Arabia
Das Boot
Zulu Dawn, maybe
Henry V (Branaugh)
Maybe Midway (I'm a little fuzzy on this one)
U571 (I know, but it seemed to be a pretty good simulation of the terrors of submarine warfare).
and I liked Tora! Tora! Tora!

Movies that I don't think are really great war movies, but have good battle scenes...
Braveheart
Patriot
Pearl Harbor
Saving Private Ryan (not to be confused with "Saving Ryan's Privates," an entirely different kind of movie ;-) )
Gladiator (the opening scene, even with all the Ridley Scott hyper-acceleration and wierd cutting)


I'd like to see a good Pearl Harbor or Midway movie from the Japanese perspective. I'd also like a movie that showed the Japanese for the despicable bastards they were in that war. We didn't let the Germans off the hook for the holocaust. I don't think the Japanese should get off for the Rape of China or the Bataan Death March, either.

I rented Tora Tora Tora (the new DVD) and watched it with the group of friends I saw Pearl Harbor with. We all agreed, Tora Tora Tora blows Pearl Harbor away...though the more i thnk about it, I was a sucker for some of the cheesy romance parts in Pearl Harbor. I was the only one who reccomended Pearl Harbor, especially if you like a Titanic-esque romance.

Also remember, America interred the Japanese Americans but never touched any Germans...in fact we allowed a few SS Officers a new life in America while hanging the Japanese generals... oh well life is never fair. Not to say the Rape of Nanching was a little tidbit, but if you think about it war is war...it really doesnt matter who is doing the raping and pillaging, its all the same. though my dad would beg to differ (the Japs burned his village down!)

Also, I remember the Civil War scenes from Glory being especially intense...same with the beginning war scenes of the Gulf War in Courage Under Fire. and despite the ending, I liked Three Kings alot...

BTW, I saw Saving Ryan's Private...reminiscent of Requiem for a Dreams' ass to ass scene ... uhhh what the hell am i thinking...

etc

"U571 (I know, but it seemed to be a pretty good simulation of the terrors of submarine warfare)"

eh. I served on both USS Pollack SSN 603 ('80-'82) and Plunger SSN 595 ('79).

Although I have no idea about the terrors of submarine warfare, I think it's safe to say most of what you see in U571 is unrealistic. I can't even remember too much of the plot anymore, but did remember having high hopes and feeling dissapointed. See Das Boot.

I think my favorite war movie is Kelly's Heroes. No more a war movie per se than Three Kings, but I just love that film.

I also have a special place in my heart for Empire of the Sun, which I suppose is not so much a "war movie" as it is a movie set during a war.

Amanpour

"I also have a special place in my heart for Empire of the Sun, which I suppose is not so much a "war movie" as it is a movie set during a war."

Well, if we're going to talk about movies set during a war, there's Casablanca and Casablanca and ... Casablanca.

FWIW, and I know this'll make me sound like certain famous film critics speaking with a lisp and sounding obnoxious, but what the heck!!!

What was I saying?

Oh yeah, I guess I meant "good" war movies stick with me in some way. Maybe they touch some real emotions, or they make me think of the war or battle they portray in a new way, or God forbid I learn something but not in a preachy way. I think a lot of war movies of the last 15 or so years try so hard to make a point that it feels jammed down your throat. So, I tend to mention some older ones that make some points but in a more subtle, less over-acted fashion.

There's a pretty wrenching scene at the end of They Were Expendable where two soldiers think they're getting on the last transport plane out of the Phillipines because two PT boat crew members hadn't shown up. But the two do show up, so the other two give up their places on the plane.

Given current events, "The Beast" might be worth checking out. This is the story of a Soviet tank under a brutal, obsessive commander, and a band of Mujahedeen tracking it after their village is destroyed. The story is really about the characters more than combat but it offers an interesting look at 'a different kind of war'.

The Beast is an excellent movie. I have caught it a couple of times on HBO before the WTC events.

Is the beast really any good? for as many bad movies as I watch, I draw the line at watching any movie that has one of the younger baldwin brothers in it. So I have seen bits and then seen him and avoided it.

Chet

Yes it is good. Jason Patric and Steven Bauer give very good performances. The Baldwin role is a minor one.

-DavidCPA

The Beast was good. I thought it was a bit too biased, though. The Soviet commander was such a monster that it was too easy for others around him to look good by comparison.

Watched the longest day lastnight on American Movie Classics or channel (or whatever its called now). That movie still holds up pretty good.

I think the three that stand out for me growing up are kelly's heros, force 10 from navarrone and dirty dozen. Obviously not the serious, serious war movies but they still crack me up.

Chet

Okay some of my fav war flicks (not in any kind of order)

Zulu (Michael Caine's debut)
Harp of Burma
Apocalypse Now
Hamburger Hill
A Bridge Too Far
Patton
Gallipoli
Too Late the Hero
Dirty Dozen
Go Tell the Spartans
The Enemy Below
Damn the Defiant
A Piece of Cake (British Miniseries--excellent novel as well)
Guns of Navarrone
Lawrence of Arabia
Bridge on the River Kwai
Empire of the Sun
Thin Red Line
Saving Private Ryan
A Midnight Clear
12 O'Clock High
The Great Escape
Full Metal Jacket
The Crossing (TV movie)
A Walk in the Sun
Gettysburg

In The Army Now with Pauly Shore.

Tsk, tsk Bill... where's Glory?

I would add, in semi-seriousness:

Duck Soup.
Let Fredonia ring!

-Andrew

Ah, Duck Soup:

"The only way you'd get me to go to war is in one of those great, big metal things. What do you call them?"
"Tanks."
"You're welcome!"

Seriously, there a few British WWII movies that I'd add to the list:

One of Our Aircraft is Missing
Corvette K-228
The Dam Busters

I'd also add to Piece of Cake another British mini-series shown on Masterpiece Theater: Danger UXB (Anthony Andrews before Brideshead Revisited)

Another British favorite, depicting a much earlier war: That Hamilton Woman (Lawrence Olivier, Vivien Leigh and the Battle of Trafalgar).

'One of Our Aircraft is Missing'

This sounds like an Onion parody of a war movie.

Oh, and Glory.... : )

Yep. Great film.

In light of recent events, I'm recommending, "The Final Option", a British movie about counterterrorism. Though it's not your traditional war flick, it still covers an apsect of war know as, "Low Intensity Conflict." The movie's quite good, and the actual CT ops are decent. It's worth a peak...

Raphael

After playing counter-strike for so long (still fun, btw, thanks for asking) I'm actually ready to explore the brave new world of counter-counter-terrorism.

The Australian Mini series 'Anzacs' is certainly a good look at WW1 from a Aussie perspective and as opposed to most war films allmost the entire cast is turned over by the end of the war. I believe we end up with only 2 out of 20 who enlist in late 1914 surviving the war. We just get introduced to new soldiers as replacements and the series grinds on and about 1/3rd die during most battles.

It certainly introduces most of the battles Australian troops fought in. Many of the heroic scenes are actually taken from VC and equivalent Medal dispatches so although some seem incredulous some one did manage them at one point or another. It does have sop in it but about 75% of the series is pretty good history.

It could be very hard to find as it can be difficult in Aus so it could be very hard to find elsewhere.

You know, I would like to see a war movie told from the pov of the Russians in ww2... in style like Saving Private Ryan... i mean Russia lost something like 11 millions soldiers in ww2, men women and children serving there country. Its a shame how much is never mentioned of the Russian sacrifices in ww2. In fact, if it werent for the Russians we all might be under a Swastika. BTW this isnt to mean i love Stalin or anything, but that the Russians never seem to get the story told of there glories, as the West usually does from WW2.

sorta OT, but did you know that with the Chechnya conflict Russia has estimated its death casualties around 80 thousand since the early nineties ... pretty mind boggling that a conflict like this is never mentioned these days... its like another Vietnam for Russia.

etc

"the Russians never seem to get the story told of there glories"

Are you serious? Have you watched any Soviet films from 1943-1985?

I meant Hollywood films. But maybe i should take a look at some Russian Cinema or sumtin... know any you could reccomend?

etc

"I meant Hollywood films."

Enemy at the Gates. It's a recent film about Russian and German snipers in the battle of Stalingrad. WARNING: Bob Hoskins as Nikita Kruschev may be hard to take seriously.

"WARNING: Bob Hoskins as Nikita Kruschev may be hard to take seriously."

Yes, but so will the middle and the interminable end of the film. Anything after the initial war scene that shows a new dimension on SPR's opening realism.

-Andrew

In my defense, he only asked for a movie. Not a GOOD movie.

It is kinda surprising that we have more movies about the German perspective on WWII than we have any other country (excluding the U.S.). Hollywood could write some amazing stories from the Russian, British, or even French Resistance (factually, not this glorified thing we have spoon fed to us with men in barrets smoking cigarettes and freeing hundreds of prisoners of war all before breakfast).

Hell, just a movie that focused on the seige of Stalingrad would be amazing. I really couldn't get into Enemy at the Gates, but it at least attempted to tackle the subject manner.

You could try _Stalingrad_. I believe it's a German movie about a platoon that ends up in the battle of Stalingrad. Bleak and horrible, rather like the battle itself.

It's quite good, and available on video.

"Hollywood could write some amazing stories from the Russian, British, or even French Resistance (factually, not this glorified thing we have spoon fed to us with men in barrets smoking cigarettes and freeing hundreds of prisoners of war all before breakfast)."

There were a lot of WW2 movies from the British perspective--made by the British--during the 40s and 50s. In recent years it seems that British WW2 stories have been made for TV rather than the big screen. Piece of Cake is an example.

"Hollywood could write some amazing stories from the Russian, British, or even French Resistance"

I dunno man. Hollywood can't even tell British military stories featuring the British... case in point sub film from last year good taste has blotted out of my mind.

-Andrew

Dean where did you get Stalingrad? I looked it up at my local video store, and some Blcokbusters i called didnt have it... aye i must have to look on the net i suppose... nevermind!

etc

Facets should have Stalingrad. As for Soviet war films, they should have some of the better ones, like Ballad of a Soldier plus that other one with the partisans. The problem with Soviet war film recommendations is that some of the best war scenes (which is what I assume you're looking for when you mention Saving Private Ryan, since you can't possibly mean you're looking for good films) are in Soviet propaganda films which aren't readily available in the US, and when they are they don't have any subtitles or dubbing.

If you're looking for just a great film that happens to be set in wartime, see Prisoner of the Caucasus, which might be translated as Prisoner of the Mountains in the US release since they probably assumed a lot of people would have no idea what the Caucasus is. Despite the fact that the title is supposed to allude to Tolstoi.

Netflix has Stalingrad--
Netflix Stalingrad

Amazon also has it to buy--
Amazon Stalingrad

I personally rented it on VHS from my local video store, which is now defunct. Crazy place, they had Stalingrad, but no A Bridge Too Far. Ah well, I've been meaning to pick up ABTF at Best Buy. It's one of their bargain bin titles.