What's this movie's focus supposed to be? I've seen the trailer and I've got some interest in the subject, but I'm rather concerned that they're going to try to work some "big love story" into this thing. I'm rather hoping for a serious documentary piece. I truly hope they don't "over-fictionalize" the thing.

It's directed by Michael Bay. He gave you Armageddon, The Rock, and Bad Boys. Take that as you will.

-Thierry

Shoot me now.

Hey, are you going to have blue hair again this year?

I saw a new Pearl Harbor trailer on TV. I think WWII history buffs should simply enjoy getting to see all the planes, ships, weaponry etc. in all their amazing CGI glory. :)

Yes, there's a "Ben Affleck, Kate Beckinsale, get the youngsters into the theaters who don't even know what Pearl Harbor is romance", but you also get to see Cuba Gooding and his Browning .50 caliber, a couple of U.S. P-40s downing a Zero here and there, a sickening bomb's eye view of a bomb presumably demolishing the Arizona battleship, and the movie apparently ends with the U.S. B-25s taking off from the aircraft carrier and doing their light bombing of Tokyo.

But at least it won't end with an Aerosmith ballad, so be happy. :D

"Hey, are you going to have blue hair again this year?"

Maybe. It's purplish-blue right now. It may have either faded to something weird by then, or I'll change gears and get it firey or something.

Or just go with au natural black.

-Thierry

I'm jealous. Only asian people can get away with "anime hair" and look good. My buddy Ralph tried to go "super saiyan" with some gold hair, and he just looks like he's got a lump of cheddar on his noggin.

"I'm rather hoping for a serious documentary piece. I truly hope they don't "over-fictionalize" the thing."

I'm sorry, but is that a joke?

Amanpour

The script is said to be pretty good. Randall Wallace, of "Braveheart" and "The Man in the Iron Mask". Take THAT as you will.

[random thoughts]
I doubt Bruckheimer and Bay can fit in flying money, or some other staples. The same president that was from "The Rock" and "Armageddon" unfortunately won't be the one doing, 'the speech'. I think that job belongs to Jon Voight. I hope they can fit in the church that always shows up, the dark rainy drive into the base, and the little subtitle thing that types out on the bottom of the screen to tell us location or time. Those are cool staples of Bruckheimer movies that I don't think would be inappropriate here. I can't believe Kevin Costner turned down the Alec Baldwin role. His career is in a major downward spiral, and whether this movie will be good or not, it'll be a financial hit. I think Bay is smart enough to have seen "The Patriot" and will know what works and doesn't work when it comes to being an action director making the switch to a serious director. At least I hope so. Why would I want this movie to be bad? Realistic or fictional, I just hope it's good and not cheesy. I prefer uncheesiness over accuracy (U-571 is an example).[/random thoughts]

Just curious, but is the movie exclusivly about that the few days before and after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or is it a general WW II movie that just happens to begin in Pearl Harbor?

I just keep getting this sickening feeling that studios are looking for the new Titanic...

"Hey, what else has happened that involves the tragic death of hundreds of people that we can stick a romance in?"

"Well, there's the Hindenberg"

"True, but we need to have Ben Affleck in a uniform if we want the teenage girls"

"We can make him the captain of the airship!"

"Good idea! No, wait, the tragedy happens too fast. There isn't enough time for him to say something like 'Stay alive' or 'I will always be here for you'"

"True... Hey, that Saving Private Ryan movie did pretty good. Maybe we could do a romance about a service guy who falls in love with a French refuge on a British air base."

"That might work, but Kate's French accent is a little suspect. I love the air base idea though."

"I've got it! Pearl Harbor! Many people died, the bombing lasted for hours, and since it's the Navy we can work in a few black men to bring in the ethnic crowd. Just imagine how the women will swoon when Ben kisses Kate as the bombs are raining down. We'll outsell Titanic!"

"We need plenty of CGI and explosions too. If we have enough, maybe the men will be able to ignore the romance."

Sorry, but this is exactly what I think every time I see that they've thrown a romance into a historic event. Look what it did to Enemy At The Gate. Romances distract me from the real plot in a movie most of the time, to the point that it ruins my enjoyment, but those movie execs need to appeal to all of the target audience, and not just me.

The movie seems to be about just before, during and just after Pearl Harbor. The Tokyo Bombing and FDR's "...day which will live in infamy" speech are probably thrown in to give some sort of hopeful feeling to the end of the movie. Otherwise, the teens will think it's a real "Woh, what a bummer." Also, if Randall Wallace is writing it, presumably it ends with that idiot radar operator supervisor (the one who told the radar operator to ignore all the blips on his screen) being drawn and quartered in a palace square. :)

Tora, Tora, Tora ended with more of a despairing, "what a waste of lives" type feeling, ending right at Pearl, perhaps more in keeping with the somber endings of mid '70s films.

Well, really, how else could Tora! Tora! Tora! have ended? Unless you're Japanese, the notion of all our National work being bombed and destroyed, and the young men that promised the next generation being killed in droves, all by a cowardly ambush attack, I think you're going to feel a bit bummed. I know, it was an "accidental" ambush, but that doesn't detract from what happened. Although right now I hear the Chinese would probably put up a cheer.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see some sort of monologue at the end of the movie where they point out that over the next three years we pounded some major Axis butt, as an attempt at lifting up the events. Also, Cuba Gooding just seems so much of a holy boy to me, always inserting these backhanded "life is wonderful" messages into everything he does, that it just makes me want to puke. Blech. Yech.

Obviously, you need to rent some good '70s flicks and wallow in misery, despair and the bad guys winning all the time. :) Blame Spielberg and Lucas for reversing that, but I like both kinds of flicks. :)

I spose the new flick's seeking a Star Spangled Banner ending. A "yes, thousands are dead and the fleet is nearly destroyed but the carriers are all intact and here we go" kind of thing.

Our family did get to go by Hawaii on a stopover in 1981 and we did go to the Battleship Arizona museum which is right over where it sank. Quite eerie.

When I was a kid I had this great (in terms of info) book about Pearl Harbor that had painfully detailed maps and diagrams of exactly where each ship was and how they sank, along with photos. I'll bet the producers could've really benfitted from that.

Possible spoiler for the history-impaired:

I've read that this movie ends with the American bomber raid on Tokyo.

I think you read it here. Didn't I say that? :D

Ah, yes you did, I knew I read that somewhere!

I guess this movie'll be kind of like The Empire Strikes Back if you think about it. A devestating ending with a faint glimmer of hope at the end.

I guess one would need to follow it up by watching Midway (in Sensurround!), The Thin Red Line (Guadalcanal), Back to Bataan and Sands of Iwo Jima to get the chronological effect.

"I guess one would need to follow it up by watching Midway (in Sensurround!), The Thin Red Line (Guadalcanal), Back to Bataan and Sands of Iwo Jima to get the chronological effect."

Shouldn't you squeeze Speilberg's 1941 somewhere in there? :)

-Tom

Blasphemer! :) Wasn't there a Wake Island movie? I swear, I read a great book about the marines' stand at Wake once. Hindsight's 50-50 (er, 20-20?) but I can't help thinking just a little bit of help and spare parts would've let Wake repelled the Japanese and given a foothold out west.

Must be an idea for a wargame there. :)

"Kate began attending Oxford University's New College in the fall of 1991, majoring in French and Russian literature." from imdb.

Wow she is my new favorite actress (russian literature ROX YOUR WORLD!)...it used to be Cate Blanchett. I guess I will have to see this Pearl Harbor flight sim bomb cam movie...plus i thought she was pretty hot in the last disco days movie that guy did.

btw, what actresses (or actors if thats your favor) interest you... Cate Blanchett in that Raimi psychic movie (forgot name, i really am scatterbrained) is almost homage to Cate Blanchett with so many loving close ups and even a peek at her panties when she falls (and thats with ! uhm i must be on drugs. I loved Blanchett in that Airline Traffic movie she does a better American then lots of American actresees!

ah i still like cate...

etc

"btw, what actresses (or actors if thats your favor) interest you... Cate Blanchett in that Raimi psychic movie (forgot name, i really am scatterbrained) is almost homage to Cate Blanchett with so many loving close ups and even a peek at her panties when she falls (and thats with ! uhm i must be on drugs. I loved Blanchett in that Airline Traffic movie she does a better American then lots of American actresees!"

I object to this paragraph. In its entirety.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

"I guess one would need to follow it up by watching Midway (in Sensurround!), The Thin Red Line (Guadalcanal), Back to Bataan and Sands of Iwo Jima to get the chronological effect."

And please, let us not forget Heartbreak Ridge. No cinematic exploration of war is complete without a viewing of this rivetting tale of the struggle for Grenada. Yes, many years seemingly separate the conflicts...but those are dog years I tell you.

And also I can't believe I'm saying this but I have to agree with wumpus on that Cate Blanchett paragraph. Get control of yourself kafka. Next you'll be bringing up Britney's Pepsi commercial. Oh...and if you use the word "rox" again without the requisite accompanying irony you're in even bigger trouble.

Amanpour

"Next you'll be bringing up Britney's Pepsi commercial."

Does this mean we can move on to talking about how much I liked it? Who wants to start? Should I?

-Tom

Britney's voice reminds me of Alvin the Chipmunk more and more every year. Ha, beat ya to the punch! :)

No commercial with Britney can be entirely bad...Even if it's not so pleasing to everyone's ears, she's at least easy on the eyes.

There are about a million women I'd rather look at than that little girl. Ok, probably more like 100 million.

But that's just my opinion.

Really? That many, huh? Wow.

I can think of about seven. Maybe. Some of them are iffy.

Besides, I've yet to hear someone say that she's painful to look at.

Britney Spears = Young Man's Heather Locklear

Maybe that's it. I'm younger than most people around here, so maybe that's why I like her better than most of you. I have a feeling my top-ten list would not match up with most of yours...

Britney would look fine if she had normal skin colour. That weird yellowish tint makes me think of a bad combination of a botched tan and jaundice.

But that's just me.

Anyone still using Napster can also find either Travis' or Fountain Of Wayne's cover of Hit Me Baby; either one is both good and hilarious at the same time.

-Thierry

I just want to see Britney Unplugged - normal clothing, a real drummer and acoustic guitarist, with Britney's amazing, natural voice with no studio tricks or sub echo and drum machines.....

HA!!!!!!

Okay, back to Pearl Harbor!

Only 7? There are 6 billion people in the world and you can come up with only 7 more attractive than Britney Spears? Let me guess you have Jennifer Lopez up there in your list too, right?

:)

I'm not all that old. I just have certain standards. Speaking of which, Han, please don't insult Heather Locklear again.

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Let me guess you have Jennifer Lopez up there in your list too, right?

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"Speaking of which, Han, please don't insult Heather Locklear again."

LOL! Sorry, Lando. I've been on my "poor man's / body double" kick again.

I was watching the trailer (for the 100th time) for "Pearl Harbor" before "Memento" over the weekend. It's funny how whenever it comes on, the audience gets absolutely quiet. Anyway, right afterwards, a woman in my row whispered to her friend condescendingly, "Oh, they've already done a movie about that!"... Duh! What world is she from where WWII or Pearl Harbor only has one possible story to be told?

Heh heh. Just messing around with you, Han.

I have yet to see the trailer for Pearl yet...although the fact that I have only been to see one movie in the past 10 months probably has something to do with that.

Did I mention I have a 10 month old as well?

=)

This isn't Pearl-related, but Washington Post has an interesting feature on the commemoration of the USS Missouri's captain. There was some grumbling from some of his shipmates after he decided to give a burial at sea to a fallen Kamikaze pilot - what happened was, the Kamaikaze pilot's plane slammed into the side of the ship but didn't explode (the bomb on it was a dud), but his body and parts of the plane flew up onto the deck, though it caused no injury to any sailors.

The fire crew was going to sweep the body of the deck with a hose, but the ship's commander told them to give the pilot a full burial at sea ceremony. (basically, pop it in a coffin and slip it off the side after a brief ceremony). It's a pretty fascinating article, and has an amazing photograph taken of the plane at the moment of its impact with the Missouri.

That's cool. It's good to see that even in the midst of war, someone remembered honor. Thanks for posting that, Geo. It's an eye-opener. I can't imagine what any of that would be like. War, that is.

Mmm...Heather Locklear...

Uhm, maybe not Jennifer Lopez, but Jennifer Love Hewitt(sp) would work...

If you are looking for hollywood hotties, go for the ones with character. They endure better. Look at Anne Margaret or Raquel Welch in their primes, or Pam Lee (love her or hate her, you remember her). For that matter, the Gillian Andersons and the (yum) Claudia Blacks have their place in the, ah, firmament as well...

Aw, who am I kidding? They're all good. :-)

A while back I posted a message lammenting the demise of almost all bookstores in the Chicago Loop. I'm pleased to report that Borders has opened a new one across the street from Marshall Field's main store.

I was browsing there at lunch today and came across the coffee table book for the new Pearl Harbor movie. I've been both anticipating and dreading this film, and the book provided fuel for both points of view.

On the plus side, as you would imagine, the production values look fantastic. Ships, planes, uniforms, you name it, all look absolutely authentic (except for a change of color of the Japanese Zero fighters which is acknowledged in the book). The still shots of the depiction of the Oklahoma capsizing were particularly impressive.

On the negative side, also as you would imagine, some of the story elements, including that most tired of war movie cliches: two pilots vying for the same woman. Yuck.

Some curious things: The time-frame of the movie. As noted in previous posts, it extends from the Battle of Britain to the Doolittle raid. How they got the Battle of Britain in there I didn't quite have time to read, but if my skimming was correct, one of the aforementioned pilots apparently was a member of the Eagle Squadron, then transitions to the AAF flying P-40s in Hawaii, then, if I'm reading it right, transitions to B-25s and takes part in the Doolittle raid. Give me a break! I do give the movie a few points for showing Hawker Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain scenes. Almost all modern depictions of the battle show only Spitfires, so that's a nice touch. However, Hurricanes and Spits in the same squadron? Don't think so.

Anyway, one last caution: Colonel Jimmy Doolittle is played by Alex Baldwin. ALEX BALDWIN? Yikes!

That's ALEC, but I agree, YIKES! :D

Oh well, when it comes to spelling that can't be corrected by a spell checker I'm useless. In any case, I can't think of an actor whose appearance and demeanor resembles Jimmy Doolittle's less than ALEC Baldwin's. Spencer Tracy in "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" was a lot closer to the mark (even if he had too much hair). What actor today is "Spencer Tracyish?"

I'm thinking Charlie Sheen is a natural for playing Gordon Freeman.

I was reading in Rolling Stone tonight that there's actually a scene in Pearl Harbor where they fish a bloody flag out of the water. In another they save a dog.

So in addition to the tacked-on romance, there's two more reasons to think the movie will suck.

Sheesh, is there a cliche they're not going to include? At least the dog doesn't jump in the water to get the flag does it?

What about cats? And the rats on the sinking ships? And....

I have to say, since Armageddon was on TV the other day that it was a summer blockbuster I detested. But I liked The Rock. I think the latter benefitted from a much better cast (Connery, Cage, Ed Harris, Michael Biehn) than either Armageddon or upcoming Pearl's going to feature.

I think Bay tries too hard to be like James Cameron but generally comes up with a fistful of mud instead. Of course some folks think Cameron's an egomaniacal **** (and not just his ex-wives) but I think he makes some great action movies with some semblance of heart in them when he wants to.

MSNBC and Newsweek already have a review up. Just what you would expect: Spectacular action with all the human elements feeling as if they were computer-animated too.

The bummer is, Saving Private Ryan showed (its corny prelud and prologue notwithstanding) that you could do a war movie focusing on war and not gumball romance and still rake in the box office.

Hmmm. Do you mean prologue and epilogue?

I guess my tastes are entirely too pedestrian. I didn't mind those scenes. Sure, they could have been removed with no problem. I guess I'll go hang out on an AOL chat room where I belong now. :)

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The bummer is, Saving Private Ryan showed (its corny prelud and prologue notwithstanding) that you could do a war movie focusing on war and not gumball romance and still rake in the box office.

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The Mummy Returns? You'd never catch me watching it. I didn't like the first one. It sucked. ;-)

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I think gamers are soulless beasts that wander the Earth looking for blood after reading something like that.

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How about two buddy pilots falling for a drowning dog, but one ends up with a girl and the other with an American flag that he fished out of the water? Now that's a story!

I thought the prologue, epilogue, and Omaha Beach stuff in SPR were great. It's the pedistrian storytelling of the rest of the movie (like Gladiator but not as bad), that made me think it was a missed opportunity for a masterpiece.

I am in fact a soulless beast, as are most of the computer gamers I know, but I liked SPR top to bottom and bought it on DVD as soon as I had a player. :D I was pointing out that most people and critics found the prologue/epilogue corny and Spielbergian. The sweeping view of how huge the cemetery was at the end touched me more than the old actor's speech.

If you didn't like the prologue/epilogue (I was fine with 'em), a neat thing to do with the DVD is simply to watch it without them and see if you feel different about the film.

If you REALLY want to be cynical, writer William Goldman complained that the way Spielberg transitioned between the prologue and Tom Hanks at D-Day, it should've been HIS character who was at the Normandy cemetery at movie's end. If you watch it, you'll see it's a rather cheap little trick to surprise the audience toward the end. :)

I thought SPR would lead to more fairly tough war films that veterans would, if not feel proud of, at least feel like they more accurately depicted the hell they went through. That seems to be what most vets appreciated about SPR, and if you viewed the interviewes with them on the SPR DVD, it was more of a healing thing for them than a wounding one. But I think most hollywood producers aren't willing to look war in the eye, so to speak. It's just too harrowing, and they'd rather try to insert Gen-X actors groping each other instead.

"Nevertheless, a lot of people, not just gamers, thought the prologue and epilogue were more manipulative than believable."

Yeah, it was thrown in as a deliberate attempt to pull on your heart strings. But it doesn't make it less believable. I've seen a lot of footage of war veterans (all old men now) collapsing before those terrible, neatly-arrayed stones. Anyone who watches History Channel has. I wonder how corny that scene will seem to us when we get a little closer to our own sunsets. It seems as good a reminder of the costs of war as the battle scenes themselves.

I also agree that real war is a horrible thing. But I don't think it's a bad thing to remind us that the survivors, and the victors, of those wars are entitled to the pride and respect that their sacrifice bought from us, the beneficiaries of that sacrifice. I also believe they should be permitted the final realization that now, at the end of their lives, they've finally paid the debt they have always carried for being the ones that lived.

Sorry. Didn't mean to slam anyone. Don't know where that came from.

I certainly didn't take it as a slam, Kazz. As another post said, what bothered me most about the epilogue in SPR was the "switch" in characters. If that had been the Tom Hanks character grieving, it wouldn't have seemed so much like a "trick."

Still, that's not nearly as bad as the kind of soulless manipulation that's apparently rampant in "Pearl Harbor." In addition to the bloody flag, etc., there's apparently a scene at the end of the movie where one of the aviators killed in the Doolittle raid is buried in a funeral complete with politicians weeping as his horse-drawn, flag-draped coffin passes by. Not that those men didn't deserve that kind of funeral, but it never happened. As the Newsweek reviewer noted, by that time the nation was too busy fighting the war to indulge itself in that kind of ceremony. The dead of the Doolittle raid, if their bodies were recovered at all, were buried in anonymous graves in China. Is it too much to ask a movie to honor their sacrifice without engaging in inch-deep heart-on-the-sleeve cliches?

Quote: I thought SPR would lead to more fairly tough war films that veterans would, if not feel proud of, at least feel like they more accurately depicted the hell they went through.
===
The upcoming "Windtalkers" is suppose to have a scene even more brutal than Normandy in SPR.

Jason, yeah, that was kind of sneaky, the way that Spielberg changed horses with the old man. If I remember correctly, we faded from the old man's eyes to Tom Hank's eyes in the opening sequence. It pretty much gave the assurance that we were looking at the old man's memories, not telling a story that just finally involved him at the end.

I'm all for realistic war movies. Aside from being a great watch, they might manage to keep us from getting that "we have cool toys. We should use them." mentality that comes anew with each generation (to a greater or lesser degree)

Whats suprising is Spielberg, based on imdb, is set to direct a movie based on a PK Dick story, "Minority Report". With this and AI maybe Spielberg is getting into sci fi a little more. Spielberg doing PKD is far from what i'd expect from him.

also, i loved SPR but the bookend cry-your-eyes-out scenes are really unneccesary. just a pan of the memorial alone is more than enough. and i think spielberg should just ditch john williams... his score for SPR was way overdone... subtlety in a john williams score is a misnomer.

etc

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subtlety in a john williams score is a misnomer.

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Doesn't Spielberg have a Pacific Theater WW2 film in the works? Some of those battles would make the SPR battles look tame.

A neat thing in the new Superman DVD is when director Richard Donner says, "I wasn't sure Williams was right for it, because we wanted Jerry Goldsmith originally. But Williams' score had this series of notes that just seemed to sing 'SUPERMAN!'" I never thought of it like that, but there's this series of 3 notes that you can almost sing the phrase to.

I alway felt Williams was good at doing what the movie required, it just happened that most of them were Blockbusters and things like the Superman and Indiana Jones flicks in particular were purposely bombastic with a really distinctive line when the hero's on screen.

John Williams is pretty good, I do like some of his scores, but every once in a while its like hes trying to redo Wagner again and again. I liked the Schindlers List score too (though Perlman probably has a LOT to do with it for me). But i guess i liked Indiana Jones and ET, he does write memorable scores. But these days, every time i see a movie with a John williams score i cringe when i hear the horns and strings come up...its almost like a pavlovian dog bell urging me to "CRY CRY CRY". I'll admit though, it works sometimes, but its so manipulative!

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But i guess i liked Indiana Jones and ET, he does write memorable scores. But these days, every time i see a movie with a John williams score i cringe when i hear the horns and strings come up...its almost like a pavlovian dog bell urging me to "CRY CRY CRY". I'll admit though, it works sometimes, but its so manipulative!

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I thought the end of SPR brought it into the present, and made it real for me. My late grandfather was a Navy pilot in Midway and Guadalcanal, and I remember a couple times as a kid when he got really drunk, and depressed, and started talking about all the death and horror of the war. I don't think he ever forgave himself for all the killing he had to do.
That ending with the old man wasn't just sentimental, it was a Truth. The war experience haunts vets for the rest of their lives.
I'm very thankful for the ending of that movie, as I feel it strengthened my empathy and understanding of my late grandfather in some small way.

Quote: But Williams' score had this series of notes that just seemed to sing 'SUPERMAN!'" I never thought of it like that, but there's this series of 3 notes that you can almost sing the phrase to.
====

There's a series of "Superman" notes in "The Iron Giant" towards the end, after the giant takes off to try and save the town. Sort of a tribute from Michael Kamen to John William's Superman score. I thought it was kind of cool.

Oh yeah Star Wars... awesome soundtrack. Jay-Dubya is good. HE did star wars right? scatterbrained again.. i think its cause i saw Memento... wait why am i .... who are ... yes i like pc games. cant wait for operation flashpoint... thats all i remember now, the Op. Flash demo.

etc

Interesting Slate article about the marketing of the film in Japan

Interesting. Thanks for posting Bruce. I wonder if the movie itself is edited for Japanese audiance? Amazing what a few well placed snips can do.

The U.S. gov put the pinch on plans for a Who Wants to be a Millionaire: Pearl Harbor edition. While it sounds horribly tasteless, a few Pearl Harbor survivors and WWII vets had agreed to be on it with proceeds going to charities. Supposedly the problem wasn't that it was tasteless, but that prize money (even if going to charities) couldn't be allowed to be tied into the subject matter, or something. This was all over various news sites but I don't have a link handy. :)

I liked the Japanese version of the trailer. WWII was just such a romantic event! Now I can't wait for the "Rape of Nanking" movie.

Speaking of bad history, I just suffered through The Patriot this weekend on HBO. If Pearl Harbor is half as bad, I'm skipping it altogether.

I have no interest in seeing Pearl Harbor, but I'm a bit resistant to these historical epics, I suppose. I never did see Titanic.

I saw commercials for Planet of the Apes last night, though. It looks to be quite the spectacle.

"Speaking of bad history, I just suffered through The Patriot this weekend on HBO. If Pearl Harbor is half as bad, I'm skipping it altogether."

Yeah, but the Patriot didn't have Zeros and Hawker Hurricanes and B-25s...

I'm there. On opening day. I'll bring a book for the love story parts of the movie.

-Tom

"I'm there. On opening day."

Playin' hooky from E3 then will ya?

Anyway,
I'm with Tom on this one. Only I'll see it later, in Wisconsin. If only for the rest of the segment in the trailer, where that bomb drops and we drop with it.

-Andrew

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If only for the rest of
the segment in the trailer, where that bomb drops and we drop with it.

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I'm definitely going to see it, because I don't know much about Pearl Harbor and get all my history nowadays from the movies.

"...we follow the bomb right though the Arizona's deck into the magazine where it explodes...."

Aw jeez,
Now there's no point at all to my seeing the movie. The bomb dies at the end? Fuck.

-Andrew

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Aw jeez, Now there's no point at all to my seeing the movie. The bomb dies at the end? Fuck.

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"don't know much about Pearl Harbor and get all my history nowadays from the movies."

Which reminds me of an article I read somewhere that says most Americans get their history from Ken Burns specials.

"The bomb dies at the end?"

LOL,your killing me Bub!

"don't know much about Pearl Harbor and get all my history nowadays from the movies."

Which reminds me of an article I read somewhere that says most Americans get their history from Ken Burns specials.

"The bomb dies at the end?"

LOL, you're killing me Bub!

LOL, how many more times do you think I can post that message? Sorry guys discuss hosed me!

"Which reminds me of an article I read somewhere that says most Americans get their history from Ken Burns specials. "

Hey, it beats not getting any history. Watching the Civil War series he did is what got me interested in that conflict, and Shelby Foote's series in particular.

Nothing wrong with a little cinematographological (that's a word, right?) historical pontificatisizin', if it helps get people interested, I reckon.

>>Now there's no point at all to my seeing the movie. The bomb dies at the end? Fuck.

And get this, the Americans WIN THE WAR!

I'm just thinking about the aircraft scenes in "Enemy at the Gate." The Stukkas strafing the barges, and the scene where you see the bombers coming right at the hero, trainling bombs as they go, were great. Here we have one of the biggest naval trouncings in history, with what looks like all the budget they needed...

I might need to bring some games for my Palm III for most of the movie, but the action parts promise to be really great.

yes, enemy at the gates had great war scenes... plus the russian officers telling the soldiers to take the guns from the dead... pretty grim. the opening minutes in Enemy at the Gates, when i think back on it, are even more grim then Saving Private Ryan because they are figthing in there own cities, seeing there own ppl dead... anyway, it still was a hokey romance

And im guessing the romance in Pearl Harbor will prolly be WORSE then Enemy at the Gates! but no bother, I just want to see the planes... zee planes zee planes boss!

etc

"I just want to see the planes... zee planes zee planes boss!"

My sentiments exactly! I'm getting antsy with anticipation seeing these billboards all over town with the swarms of Japanese planes flying in low. Then I see a poster with Ben Affleck and I think, 'oh yeah, right...' and my excitement wanes until I see those Zeroes again.

-Tom

Maybe Ben Affleck gets killed by the Zeros? That'd be cool.

"Maybe Ben Affleck gets killed by the Zeros? That'd be cool."

There's supposed to be an incredibly maudlin funeral at the end of the movie. So we can hope.

Zeros, Vals, and those oh-so-sinister Kate torpedo bombers, coming in low and steady, and you just KNOW what's gonna happen when they drop that long lance torpedo in the water, the trail of steam bubbles drawing a straight line towards the unprotected hull of its target...It'll miss and kill the dog that was trying to recover the bloody flag.

Ah well, we can dream.

And those twin-tailed B-25s. Apparently one that's used in the film was restored by some enthusiasts at a county airport near where I live. Every 4th of July it makes a low pass over our house on its way to a local event. Those twin radial engines are LOUD. It'll be interesting to see how they staged the takeoff from the carrier deck.

With any luck Alec Baldwin winds up in the drink. Well, like Kazz says, we can dream.

Saw new Pearl trailer.....

Ben!
Kate!
Josh!
Bombs!
Japanese!
Explosions!
Syrupy music!
Oh goodness, it's too much to bear!

Twin-tailed B-25s? I thought they had 2 engines but one tail, not like fork deviled P-38s. I'm probably wrong. :)

The B-25s didn't have the twin booms like the P-38, but they did have twin vertical stabilizers and rudders attached to the ends of the single horizontal stabilizer. Take a look at these images

What happened to Ben Afleck? in the Kevin Smith movies, Chasing Amy, he wasn't bad... but I guess hes supposed to be the pinup boy for "gen x" with a sensitive heart and pleases the women's eyes... bah. since Chasing Amy I haven't seen a movie he's good in.

And who is this Josh guy? looks like a young sober version of Jan Michael Vincent, GQ style.

I wonder how the Japanese are interpreting this film...

Still though, can't they make a WWII movie with other nations? A Chinese version of WW2 could end up like Schindlers List, what with the rape of Nanching n all, Im rambling!

etc

Benster was fine in Good Will Hunting, perhaps because the role subdued his Ben Affleckedness. :)

Jim Caviezel (Frequency and the dreadful new Ja-Lo flick Angel) lost out to Affleck probably due to latter's perceived box office draw, though facts don't really support the perception. :)

Geo, have you seen Angel Eyes? I'm a big Caviezal fan (yes, I'm one of maybe a half dozen).

I read/heard some horrible reviews so far, but it doesn't mean it won't be an audience pleaser. :)

I enjoyed him in Frequency.

"And who is this Josh guy? looks like a young sober version of Jan Michael Vincent, GQ style.
"

Josh Harnett was in The Virgin Suicides, which is an excellent movie. Don't know if he's been in anything else.

The virgin suicides? Like, a bunch of really depressed 30-year-old guys jumping off of bridges? Oh, wait. That was "If Lucy Fell," wasn't it?

Release day, "Angel Eyes" come in at a shaky 35% on Rotten-tomatoes.com while "Shrek" pulls in 86% positive reviews. Not surprising of Shrek. A not so good showing of Angel Eyes, since word was that they moved up the original release date because they thought early screenings were really positive. Oh well, whatever.

Kazz, you're about one of maybe three people that remember "If Lucy Fell". The one good thing about that movie was Ben Stiller as Bwick. That was some good schtick.

An editor buddy got me ze full Pearl Harbor press kit. It includes lots of photos, an interesting "canned feature", which is an interview with a Real Pearl Harbor survivor about the experience; and an extensive "making of" booklet.

Cast aside, real amazing stuff. They did go to Pearl Harbor and set up their cameras there so that the whole layout would be correct. Then they digitally painted out all the modern stuff so they could replace it with digitally constructed ships, sailors, planes, etc.

Not all the planes in it are digital; they did find a few flyable antique WWII planes and accurate replicas, including Japanese Vals and Zeros, some later model P-40s, four B-25s for the Tokyo bombing, a BF-109 for some sequences showing one of the pilots during the Battle of Britain. In some cases they apparently did digital reconstructions of real craft so that they could show huge rows of P-40s and the like. Chances are, they use the real aircraft for closeups and for showing the front of formations, with the rest filled out digitally.

If you recall Titantic, in some distant scenes it was far too obvious you were watching little digitalized attempts at people running around the ship. In this they apparently were individually creating and animating each sailor and mixing up their uniforms and colors to try to match the uniforms of the day.

There's one huge explosion that was really done with explosives and not via effects, that the stunt coordinator claims is the biggest "real" explosion ever done for film. I assume that's for the Arizona blowing up, but not sure.

Oh and Josh Hartnett has a small role in the poorly reviewed recent Warren Beatty comedy, "Town and Country."

Gotta get back to work, but I'll share some more info snippets from the press kit later. :)

Reviews I've seen are mostly bad or mixed. The Washington Post's Stephen Hunter, who hates 99% of all movies, actually likes it (although feels the overblown portrayal of the Doolittle raid nearly derails the flick) which may or may not be a good sign.

The actual Pearl attack sequences don't come until nearly 2 hours (!) into the film, which is 3 hours long.

I loved Shrek BTW. When you find the Pearl lines impossible, see Shrek instead and you'll feel your money's better spent I bet. Can't wait for it on DVD. :)

So far Pearl Harbor scores a stunning 19% at Rotten Tomatoes: 9 out of 49 reviewers giving it a favorable review. Whew! The Chicago Tribune critic says that it's hard to watch the non-action sequences with a straight face.

Today's NYT pans it, also.

Negative reviews wouldn't surprise me. It's a Bruckheimer film, after all. What would surprise me is if they don't make billions from it, despite the reviews. The masses are asses!

Just saw Gone in Sixty Seconds. Damn film almost drove me blind and deaf it was so fucking bad.

"This Calitri guy's bad. Real bad."

WTF? They couldn't find a decent screenwriter, so they had to rip dialog out of thirty year old comic books?

I liked The Rock, but I think in that case the cast (Connery, Cage and Harris) helped elevated it beyond most of what the Bruckster produces. It sounds too much like Armageddon meets WWII. Blech. :)

I saw the movie yesterday, it ain't a four star movie (suprise suprise), though i can say its worth the war scenes alone... though its particularly sad that this movie is trying really to be more like Titanic than Saving Private Ryan imo. The pro american polemics might not do well with non americans, which is precisely why Titanic did well, it played well to the whole world! Even the Chinese loved it (from what i heard on a public radio talk thing). This movie won't do half as well i think...

Anyway, the romance worked for me the first half hour but DRAGS and DRAGS after that. Its almost an hour too long. Also, theres something of a turkey feel to the movie (very bad hammy dialogue), which for some odd reason makes it more endearing to me... dont know why, its seems to be an unintentinally overblown b-movie imo. idiotic innocence unintended i guess.

Favorite scene in the movie for me takes place when Afleck's characters flyinf in the BoB and shoots off the nose of a Ju-88, awesome special effects! worst thing about movie is no storyline dealing with the US navy (when practically most of the ppl dying in PEarl Harbor were Navy). The lead characters are Army Air Corp and Nurses.

Anyway, not bad not great, and definitely not worth a long wait in line... wait for matinee or cheap theaters or just go see Enemy at the Gates... similar movie but with a stronger storyline (not neccesarily a great movie but better than Pearl Harbor imo).

etc

At any point in this movie, does a pilot sing "you've lost that lovin' feeling"?

"...though its particularly sad that this movie is trying really to be more like Titanic than Saving Private Ryan imo."

To plagiarize a smart woman I know, I would say that the movie stumbles into being more like Titanic than SPR, not that it is "trying to be" more like one than the other. The only thing it is trying to be is a money maker.

[I was considering a bunch of cute shipwreck/iceberg metaphors but this movie just isn't worth it.]

Amanpour

"I loved Shrek BTW. When you find the Pearl lines impossible, see Shrek instead and you'll feel your money's better spent I bet. Can't wait for it on DVD. :) "

I thought Shrek was great! Not at all what I expected ( a cross between a chick flick and a kid flick). It worked really well, and was funny.