Heist. This was a fun film. It's not getting in line for any Oscar, but I enjoyed myself to no end watching. The dialogue is wonderful. At one point, Gene Hackman has the drop on a wounded Danny Devito. Danny implores, "Don't you want to hear my last words?" To which Hackman responds, "I just did," and he shoots him. You gotta love writing like that.

Speaking of Gene Hackman, this guy is amazing for being in his seventies. Where does he get the energy? You won't see him in anything for a while then he's suddenly in everything. Well, maybe not so much anymore, but it sure did feel like that a few years back. I know he's got another movie coming out in a week or so, Behind Enemy Lines.

DVD. Sopranos Second Season. What can I say, it's another season of the Sopranos. Maybe not the same impact as the first season (perhaps the newness of the idea is wearing off); nevertheless, it's still a lot of fun to watch. In fact, I'm tempted to get HBO to see the 3rd season repeats and catch season 4 when it premiers.

Also new on DVD. Having missed it in the movies, I picked up Tomb Raider. Yawn. Glad I didn't shell out my time or any babysitting cash for the big screen. I got through the first 10 minutes and then turned it off and went to bed. Maybe it was because I had previously spent 3 hours on Sopranos disk that day, but it just felt completely un-inspired. The only redeeming feature was Jolie's hotty body.

Spoiler:

"You gotta love writing like that."

And you gotta love writing that describes the last scene in a movie.

*shrug*

It's a caper flick; they all end the same!

Tim, I also have to say that I don't appreciate the spoiler. I was very interested in seeing Heist and movies like this generally have a lot of plot twists so I had been avoiding any detailed descriptions of the plot or characters. I probably won't catch the flick in the theater now, but I'll still see it on DVD.

Appologies, Kevin. In the future I'll be more careful.

Any of you cats seen The Man Who Wasn't There? I loved the film, although one part did bother me. I won't bring it up yet though, because I'm not sure Tom has seen it yet and he'll start screaming "What are you thinking?!?" if I mention something that happens in a film he hasn't seen yet.

Beyond that one part I'm alluding to above I think the film is a solid one, one of the better films so far this year. I did have one other problem with the film, one which crops up a couple of times, and it deals with my fear that the Coens are flirting with self-parody of late, and not in a flattering way. I don't think they can control this, but I wish someone close to them who cares would try to get them to. They're too talented to be ruined by falling into the trap of being too cute for their own good.

Oh, and Billy Bob was just wonderful in the film. I'll see it again just to watch him work. That and to wish I could get away with being a smoker. My wife won't let me and apparently it's bad for you but if I lived in black and white I would definitely be a smoker; there'd be no avoiding it, regardless of what she said.

Amanpour

"That and to wish I could get away with being a smoker."

Me too. That movie made me want to smoke *and* wear hats.

Since I've seen it, Amanpour, feel free to spoil away. Just don't say anything about Out Cold, because I haven't seen that one yet.

Topic: Man Who Wasn't There is essentially Big Lebowski gone back to its noir roots. Discuss.

-Tom

The Sopranos 2nd Season, rented them. And I'm in awe. Don't tell me anything about the third season, which my mother kindly VHS'd and has been gathering dust for about a year now.

"Got yourself a gun..."

-Andrew

Re: The Man Who Wasn't There
...an interesting article.
http://slate.msn.com/?id=2058288

"Was that a pass?"

-Tom

I'm still working through many of the older movies. We just watched Nashville, and Dog Day Afternoon. Prior to that it was The Long Good Friday.

If I quit my job and get myself catheterized, I could see a lot more movies.

No need to have someone else do it. Do it yourself. I can't help with the job thing, though.

Ow and stuff?

Aaaaaargh!!!

Dude! Ugh!

"my mother kindly VHS'd and has been gathering dust for about a year now."

Lucky guy! Can I have dibs when you're done? I'm completely serious; I'm going into withdrawl here!

"Woke up this morning..."

Hey -- any of you guys catch the Dungeons and Dragons movie? I don't recall hearing any discussion of it here.

I saw it the other night on TV (well, half of it) and was surprised -- it didn't suck as bad as I thought it would. I actually kind of enjoyed it.

WARNING: The following post may be too geeky and therefore unsuitable for children. It also contains spoilers.

The story strayed TOO far from what D&D is. Why were the dragons portrayed as mindless drones under the control of a mage with a stick? Granted, it was a very nice stick, but dragons are supposed to be intelligent and decent spellcasters in their own right. And what was with raising the Wayans character from the dead? Couldn't someone find a high-level cleric in the big city?

If you separate the movie from the license, you still have some glaring problems. The characters were left undeveloped. At the end, I wondered why the dwarf was even there and why the characters had all of a sudden become such good friends. The special effects were okay, but haven't Episode I and Godzilla taught us that special effects do not make a good movie? Oh, and it doesn't help that the lead character is the worst actor in the whole picture.

My wife is right, I am a bitter person.

D&D and Tomb Raider are two prime examples of what not to do with a geek-centered license deal. Tomb Raider was just a giant bore and D&D felt like "Abbott & Costello Meet Jeremy Irons".

Wing Commander, now there's an example on how you should...oh, wait, no, that was even worse than D&D.

Man, has there ever been a gaming license that has turned out a good movie? Not counting cartoons (love those Street Figheter movies), I can't think of a single one.

"Man, has there ever been a gaming license that has turned out a good movie?"

Yes - Pokemon. HAHAHAHA!

Using my incredible armchair marketing savvy, I can explain the problem:

Hollywood won't turn out a good gaming movie until they realize that gamers are a subset of the 18-34 market, and not a cross-section of it. People who would want to see a gaming movie, watch it when it comes to TV, and buy the special edition DVD, are generally not the same people that subscribe to STUFF magazine. The first studio that doesn't go for the lowest common denominator (boobs and explosions) with a gaming license could do very well for itself in the long run. They may not make the initial $$$, but sequels, rentals and merchandising would more than justify taking the "high road."

How about In the Bedroom? Anyone seen that yet? Chick?

Brett

Isn't that a limited showing, like just LA and NYC in the states? Maybe it was at Sundance, too. I can't remember. I just know I won't get to see it unless it gets a wider distributation or comes to video. But with a name like it has, I'm apt to miss it a few months from now in a video store.

"You are way out of line, Mister."

Amanpour

"I'm apt to miss it a few months from now in a video store"

I don't know, "In the Bedroom" is getting phenomenal initial praise. For Tomei, Spacek, the script and director. It's the sort of praise that'll probably transform into Oscar buzz. Hehe, and if it's also a Miramax film (I don't know offhand), well...

-Andrew

Bub-forget about that In the Bedroom stuff; what about season 3? Are you going to send it to me when you're done or what? Drop me some email, wouldja?

Session 3? Is that the square root of the film Session 9?

Amanpour

I haven't seen In the Bedroom, Brett, but it was one of the few things I felt like I missed last year at Sundance. I've been meaning to see it.

BTW, the more time passes, the more I like Man Who Wasn't There. If there weren't so many other things I want to see, I'd see it again.

And Session 9 was excellent. *Maybe* it would make a Top Ten of 2001 list. Just maybe. Should we be talking about Top Ten of 2001 yet? Or should we wait until Majestic opens?

-Tom

XT got Session 3 out of Season 3?
Is it a bad joke... or honest mistake? Hmmm.

And Tim, I think my mom wants those tapes back. So you'd have to send me postage, plus something like 7 blank VHS tapes, and you'd have to wait for my wife's snail-like pace at watching things like this (she's in school, so we'll be doing one or two eps a week for now).

-Andrew

"Or should we wait until Majestic opens?"

Man, I hope that was sarcastic. Damn you, aversion to emoticons.

I see maybe 5 theater movies a year now... Wife-School, Career, Kid. Since two of those are going to have to be Harry Potter and LOTR (it's a disease), is there any point to looking forward to Ali? I really want Ali to be a great movie. Someone burst my bubble if you've heard something bad. I don't think I could take it being a bad movie. Actually, an almost good movie is somehow always worse to me.

I can't take disappointment anymore.

FWIW, Rolling Stone's Peter Travers has evidently picked Fellowship of the Ring as the best movie of the year. Royal Tennenbaums is #3.

http://www.reelbuff.com/article.php?sid=82&mode=thread&order=0

Oh, and A.I. is on there, so please discount the entire list.

"XT got Session 3 out of Season 3? Is it a bad joke... or honest mistake?"

The latter. Apologies. Session 9 is a film I've been wanting to see for a long time, so my mind was up for playing tricks.

I don't want a guy who put AI on his list of top ten even seeing Royal Tennenbaums. I've been secretly nervous that it will suck anyway, and now that Rolling Stone goofball comes along and jinxes it. I'd rather just stay home and watch Rushmore again if it's gonna suck.

As for Ali, the only thing I can say is that I know a couple people who've worked on it and they say Michael Mann is a dictator, which can go either way. In this case he is being an absolute stickler for detail, period-wise, to the point of being this maniacal micromanager. This is a rumor, though, and should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

"Actually, an almost good movie is somehow always worse to me."

I couldn't agree more. That whole flirting with mediocrity thing drives me nuts.

Amanpour

Speakng of LOTR, I saw the board game that Bruce recommended several months back (when it wasn't yet available in the States) at my local B & N. It was about $50. Rather pricey for a board game, but the box definitely passes the heft test. We had already blown the Xmas gift budget when I saw it, so it'll have to wait a bit. Since my birthday's in January, I'll probably put on my list for then. You can check it out here.

Jason,

I was terribly disappointed to click on that link and not find your birthday list. Where can we see this list?

On an unrelated note, can we fire Peter Travers? And I don't know what this season 3 thing is all about, but I'd much rather talk about Session 9. Who's with me?

-Tom

"Oh, and A.I. is on there, so please discount the entire list."

I'll see your Peter Travers list and raise you one Lord British list.

---
http://pc.ign.com/news/40107.html

Richard Garriott: I've only finished two games in my life and I'm about to finish my third. What I'm playing right now is Diablo II. Even years ago, I knew that I would enjoy Diablo a lot and I honestly avoided it during the development of Ultima IX and Ulitma Online and I only started it during my year's retirement (cause I signed a one-year's non-compete). So I started it just before I started up this new company and it was as addictive as my friends had found it. I'm almost finished. I'm literally a few hours of gameplay from finishing.

IGNPC: I've heard that you've also finished Myst. What's the third game?

Richard Garriott: American McGee's Alice. I was on a research ship the summer before last and played it while I was on board. I enjoyed that one too. Those are the only two games I finished that weren't called Ultima.

----

God Bless America. NMCGEESALICE.

"And I don't know what this season 3 thing is all about"

The Sopranos oh ye who doesn't pay attention. And I actually asked we not talk about it. But I don't want to talk about Session 9 either, as I haven't seen it. I don't think it even came to Milwaukee. Made didn't either. Jeez.

Session 9 is that horror movie in the real-world Sanitarium? The one Entertainment Weekly gave a mediocre review to? Fire Gleiberman too.

-Andrew

"I was terribly disappointed to click on that link and not find your birthday list. Where can we see this list?"

Before this game, there was only one item on it.

Hey, it's a mid-life crisis birthday.;)

"Made didn't either."

That's just a crime.

"What is this, 21 Jump Street?"

Amanpour

"I've been secretly nervous that it will suck anyway, and now that Rolling Stone goofball comes along and jinxes it."

My faith in Tennenbaums is still strong. More and more, I'm convinced it's going to be the thinking man's Behind Enemy Lines.

Yeah it was a crime XT. I arranged a babysitter, me and my wife were jazzed about it, based on a love for the first Favreau flick "Swingers" and I scanned the movie listing and found. Crap.

I think we went to "AI" instead, which just makes the whole experience all the more galling in retrospect.

-Andrew

"Hey coach, what about me? Do I have heart?"

Made is definitely on my 2001 Top Ten list. Best movie of the summer. Which actually isn't saying much.

Session 9 was shot in a closed down psychiatric institute in Massachusetts. Along the lines of the Overlook Hotel in The Shining, it's basically one of the characters in the movie, which looks great. Next to Dancer in the Dark, Session 9 is one of the nicest looking movies shot on digital video I've ever seen. It's also cut *very* well. A lot of that movie's impact is in the editing.

(Come to think of it, I'd say Session 9 is the thinking man's The Shining...)

-Tom

FYI - Tomb Raider made well over $100 million and is considered a very good success in the industry. There will be sequels.

Going for the lowest common denominator is what made Tomb Raider all its money. No need to get snobby about it - it's what works, like it or not.

Nah Adam, The Mummy Returns went for the same lowest common denomonator and hit it much more squarely than Tomb Raider, and made a lot more money. Comparitively TR is a complete failure even though Mummy Returns is an awful film as well. Tomb Raider is worse simply because it's 90% bad/nonsensical exposition and 10% terrible finale.

Still, you CAN make a good movie that hits that same denominator. Raiders of the Lost Arc, Star Wars, etc.,

There's absolutely a need to get snobby about it.

-Andrew

Can you actually see Session 9 anyplace other than NY, Chicago, and LA? Another one I'll be waiting for on DVD. Sometimes I hate my one-horse town.

Brett

"So you'd have to send me postage, plus something like 7 blank VHS tapes"

Of course I would, Bub. Whenever you guys are through, if you're still agreeable, I'd love to have a peek. I'll send blanks and a self addressed, stamped, box. If you want the tapes back, I'm happy to ship them back to you, too...

Er, wait a minute. You know, it actually might be cheaper and more conveniant to--god forbid--purchase HBO for a month or two!

LOL, thanks for the offer, though. It's an awesome show and I understand they're doing repeats of all three seasons before next spring (I think spring) when season 4 starts.

Tom,

You don't know about the Soprano's? Dude, the Soprano's is the thinking man's America's Most Wanted.

'Dude, the Soprano's is the thinking man's America's Most Wanted.'

I think that would actually be Legends of the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. I swear it's a real show, I just can't find anything online about it.

Some good movies this year that haven't been mentioned...Amelie, Mulholland Drive and Ghost World. Seeing Apocalypse Now Redux on an IMAX screen is my movie event for the year.

Also, put me in the category of not enjoying The Man Who Wasn't There two bits. The one bit is for the cinematography. The out-of-this-world stuff, the Heisenberg diatribe, the almost World According to Garp accident, the snails pacing, the plot not living up to even mediocre noir, and the Coen's sticking pretty closely to the genre as far as plot goes (with their few quirky asides) add up to a forgettable flick. Of course, I didn't think O, Brother was anything special, just better than most popcorn fare. Lynch is back in form while the Coen's are still going downhill from the Fargo/Big Lebowski plateau.

"FYI - Tomb Raider made well over $100 million and is considered a very good success in the industry."

I didn't say they couldn't make a profit, I said they couldn't make a good movie.

"There will be sequels."

Half the draw for that flick was putting Big-Boobs Magee in hot pants and letting her run around holding giant phallic symbols (yes, the handguns are phallic symbols). I don't doubt that there will be at least 1 sequel, but what will it cost and will anyone bother to see it? Fool me once - shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Did any of you guys see Happy Accidents? I really liked that film, possibly enough to put it on the list. Problem is I saw it right after I saw Hedwig, so I'm not sure if my warm feelings toward it are just residuals from liking Hedwig so much.

I guess I'll have to try to see it again.

Amanpour

Hedwig is the best movie of 2001 so far IMO-- it's great! And dammit, there is a tonal relationship between that movie and Rushmore. Both movies are great for similar reasons.

Of course, I haven't seen a lot of the newer nutty arthouse movies that you guys seem to specialize in. *cough*livinginLA*cough*

Some good movies this year? Momento was outstanding, but it probably won't win anything because it didn't have any big names. Conversely, The Others was OK, but not outstanding, and it will probably win something because of all the big name associated with it.

Movies this year had various good things about them, but overall most left me wanting more. For example, Training Day was great up until the last 15 minutes or so. Nevertheless, Denzel is a deliciously evil bad guy.

And who said Mullholand Drive? Was that really a this year film? No matter: it single handedly brought back the blackjack as a viable Hollywood weapon. Woohoo!

Actually, Tim, there's a fair amount of Oscar buzz around Memento. I expect at the very least it'll be nominated for the script. And I'd say Denzel's a shoo-in for Training Day and probably Nicole Kidman for The Others since it made so much money and since strong female performances are few and far between. Maybe for Moulin Rouge, though.

As for Mr. Greenjeans:

"Some good movies this year that haven't been mentioned...Amelie, Mulholland Drive and Ghost World."

I'm meaning to see Amelie, but Mulholland Drive? I just assumed David Lynch was doing his regular thang.

And Ghost World? Sheesh, Greenjeans, are you a big fan of teen agnst and sneering? Great job by Buscemi, but if I want to watch snotty teens, I can just look out my window at the high school across the street. And I don't have to pay $10 to see some funky comic book adaptation.

"Also, put me in the category of not enjoying The Man Who Wasn't There two bits. The one bit is for the cinematography. The out-of-this-world stuff, the Heisenberg diatribe, the almost World According to Garp accident, the snails pacing, the plot not living up to even mediocre noir, and the Coen's sticking pretty closely to the genre as far as plot goes (with their few quirky asides) add up to a forgettable flick. Of course, I didn't think O, Brother was anything special, just better than most popcorn fare."

Hmm, okay, for a minute I thought you were serious until you said the thing about O Brother, which was one of last year's best movies. :)

Actually, I couldn't disagree more about Man Who Wasn't There. Lovely black and white cinematography, with light and shadow used to great effect on the characters' faces (in fact, I'm guessing some of the shadows were digital). The pacing and main character were, to me, fascinating exceptions to the typical movie conventions. A completely passive lead character in a film noir potboiler? What you call a "quirky aside" was the whole point!

"Lynch is back in form while the Coen's are still going downhill from the Fargo/Big Lebowski plateau."

I guess I'll put Mulholland Drive on my list, but as for the Cohen brothers, I think you're confusing peaks and plateaus. Those two movies, along with O Brother, were savagely funny.

-Tom

Most noir characters (except when the detective is the protaganist) are passive except for an inciting incident. How they react to their crime coming apart and their inability to have any real affect on the unraveling of their plot is key. I don't want to post any spoilers, so I can't really go into details. I did like the cinematography, though, but I know my sentence stating such parses oddly. The same goes for my saying that Fargo and Big Lebowski were the Coen's plateau and you read that to mean they were of lesser quality, it's a high plateau, but since neither was better than the other (I give the edge to Fargo) it's a plateau from which O, Brother then drops them and MWWT keeps the ball rolling down. O, Brother is closer to the Blues Brothers in plot than the Odyssey, unfortunately, it is not nearly as successful a comedy. I'm sure Preston Sturges had a much better bad movie in mind in Sullivan's Travels. If I want good folk music, I'll buy a Lomax recording. Which quirky aside did you think the whole point was? I took the Heisenberg speech to be the moment when the theme of the film was closest to the surface of the action on the screen.

As for Ghost World, sure, it features snotty teens, but I don't think it embraces them, in fact the snottiness makes it impossible for them to connect emotionally to each other. Much like Catcher in the Rye, if you think the creators are in full favor of their protaganists' behavior, pay more attention. Hell, in Ghost World, the ending couldn't be much worse for the main character, or for most of the others. You've done a Deus Ex on this movie ;) Seriously, though, look a little deeper, it's not that deep a movie, but it sure isn't as shallow as you make it out to be.

As for Lynch, I put Lost Highway as his low, Straight Story as a minor work and Mulholland Drive as his return to Eraserhead heights. I can see how Lynch is an acquired taste, but I think that Mulholland has a great intuitive, emotional feel to it that few films can match. Amelie also has this feel, but with a more conventional plot.

"you said the thing about O Brother, which was one of last year's best movies. :)"

What was good about it? O Brother nearly bored me to death. And I'm not alone-- a quick trip to Rotten Tomatoes illustrates the way this movie was a love/hate affair with about a 75/25 split. I am firmly in the latter camp.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/movie-1102021/?beg=24&int=25&page=2

I loved Fargo and Big Lebowski, but O Brother is one of the Coen brothers' weakest movies.

I just watched Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. I have vague memories of this movie as a wee lad, but man, in retrospect, it's hard not to see this film as a hard-core allegory piece on the Vietnam War. They talk about joining the army (eg, Spanish-American war), and they are chased by an unseen "superposse" led by a guy in a straw hat (Johnson) for almost 30 minutes. And they never kill anyone until they arrive in a foreign country-- and even then, ironically only when acting as "the good guys", hired to protect the very payrolls they've been robbing. I was particularly struck by the death scene of the bandits, with the extended scream. Then I realized, that's the first time they've killed anyone, and they did it in a foriegn country where they are outsiders who don't even speak the language! Er, yeah, loss of innocence.

I don't see this as a simple tragic buddy picture although it certainly works well that way, too.

One thing in particular that struck me: this movie is awfully sarcastic, even Scream-like in this way. That had to be incredibly odd in 1969, and it feels quite modern primarily for that reason (and because it has dark overtones). The mixture of humor and pathos is interesting. Why not just enjoy life when you could die any time? Particularly if you're of draft age. No wonder the movie played huge to the younger generation. I was too young to remember, but evidently the movie was a major cultural phenomenon. Though it was brutally panned by critics.. including our good buddy Pauline Kael who called it "the bottom of the pit".

http://www.wga.org/WrittenBy/0500/know.html

Search for the word "whore". It's actually a very funny interview with William Goldman (the writer) and John Cleese.

No discussion of this movie would be complete without some mention of the Burt Bacharach ditty "Raindrops Keep Fallin' on my Head". It feels strange in the movie.. not quite at the Kubrick level, but it definitely has major existentialist overtones. A big hit in 1969, and referenced in the 1970 hit "Ride, Captain Ride" song as well: "They were too busy watchin' those old raindrops fall."

Anyway, I can recommend the DVD. It has interviews with Redford, Newman, and many others that were conducted on the 25th anniversary. And a commentary track, plus a bunch of other material. One of the better DVDs for bonus content-- lots of insights into the movie and the filmmaking process.

"Momento was outstanding,"

Momentos! THE FRESHMAKER!

ME-mento, guys. ME-mento. I don't mean to be anal about this, but.. ah, fuck it. I'm just anal.

I'm just a young-un, but Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid is one of my favorite movies.

Anyway, just thought I'd say that...

Wumpus if you're not too busy could you please check my spelling in other threads, too?

Thanks,
Tim

"there's a fair amount of Oscar buzz around Memento"

This is good to hear. I really enjoyed it, and want to see more inovation like this. So far it's in the lead for my best of 2001. But I have high hopes for LotR, Ali, and Tennenbaums.

Right now I'm on my way to see Behind Enemy Lines. I hope they get the aircraft/combat scenes right. I'm mainly giong because of the aircraft/combat scenes, and Hackman, and, well, the fact that it's just a good old patriotic, flag waving, flick for on a wet Friday night.

When you get back, Tim, can you tell me who the villains are in that movie? It looks like a throwback to the Cold war (sort of like Operation: Flashpoint) in the trailers; seems like they purposely keep the identity of the nation we're at war with vague.

Ooh, do tell, Tim. How was it? I'm sorely tempted, as a fan of Hackman, Owen Wilson, and contemporary military hardware. I figure at least two out of three will be good.

SiNnER934009, my understanding is that the villains are Serbs. I think the story's loosely based on a fellow shot down over the Balkans who had to eat bugs and twigs for several days before he was rescued. I have a feeling, however, that Behind Enemy Lines will take some dramatic license with this.

Greenjeans, I beg to differ on your assesment of film noir, that most of the character's are passive. They tend to feature hardened characters, men of action who are at the very least outspoken and more often violent and aggressive. Of course, I could just be confusing noir with detective stories... :)

The quirk in both Big Lebowski and Man Who Wasn't There was to put essentially passive characters at the heart of a noir plot. For Lebowski, it was for comic effect. For Man Who Wasn't There, it was for existential effect.

Also, Greenjeans, your point is well taken on Ghost World, but I was only half kidding. I do understand that it ultimately rejects the sort of teen angst sneering of its lead characters as something that dooms them to isolation and loneliness, but by the time the movie got around to that, I had long since lost interest in them. I was reduced to admiring the blond girl's tight sweater (which makes a reappearance in Man Who Wasn't There).

-Tom

It takes place in Bosnia. The Serbs are the bad guys.

It wasn't too bad. Hackman was super. The initial shoot down scenes were pretty edge of the seat intense, too. Those were the best parts for me.

On the lame side, some of the action/combat scenes came off poorly. There was one shot in particular with booby traps and explosions that reminded me of an episode of A-Team, if you can believe it. Heh.

I can check one of my Janes sims, but maybe someone here knows: is there a two seater version of the F/A-18 Super Hornet?

I ask because the plane they show has two seats, and I initially thought it was an F-14 (when they first show the plane it's a close in shot of just their heads under the canopy). But then there were some cockpit shots and I saw the distinctive green F/A-18 E MFDs. Heh, I only know that from having played Jane's F/A-18. When they pull back to an overhead shot, I can see it's the body of an F/A-18. But I didn't know they came with a two seat version, and I couldn't be sure they weren't just showing shots of two different planes for some reason.

Anyone know? Sean? Tom?

So, Tom -- who's this blond girl? :-)

"the snails pacing, the plot not living up to even mediocre noir,"

Snails pacing? Um...ever seen The Big Sleep?

As for Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, I keep trying to watch that film. I keep thinking I'll finally get what all the fuss is about. Then I get to the B.J. Thomas part and every single time I just throw my hands in the air and say, "What the fuck?"

For me the flaw is fatal, and I'm a fan of Goldman. I think he's better when he's poking fun at himself, like in Princess Bride.

Amanpour

To answer my own post (because after I said that, mostly joking, I decided to head over to IMDB and see for myself), I'm noticing that Scarlett Johansson was in both of those movies...So I'm guessing that's her. I have no idea who she is...

She's cute, though.

Just remembered With a Friend Like Harry. A great black comedy in the Hitchcock style as the French love to mimic. It got a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes (67 Fresh to 3 Rotten), so at least I know this isn't just me, it's professional reviewers too (and if that doesn't mean something here, where else does it?).

"as a fan of Hackman, Owen Wilson, and contemporary military hardware. I figure at least two out of three will be good."

As I said, Hackman is great. Wilson isn't bad. Besides the SAM attack, there was also a scene with some way cool spy satellite stuff that I enjoyed.

But as I think about it, I'm leaning more toward disappointed. One gripe was all the funky camera work--pointless stuff like jittery zig zag camera motion at the very beginning of a scene, before the camera "finds" Owen and zooms in on him, or this weird stop action thing at the beginning of a lot of the shots. I think I was looking for something patriotic and feel good, if a little silly... like Last Castle. But this was just so flat...

eh. I give it a 7.4 and call it a night.

Scarlett Johansson has an exceedingly high "What have I seen her in before?" factor for me. During and after Man Who Wasn't There, I was just obsessing over where I had seen her and/or her name before. IMDB did not help.

IMDB is an interesting animal though. It has taken some of the fun out of a whole echelon of character actors. It has certainly made life easier. I now have an immediate resource when I want to find out, for instance, who that guy was in "Silence of the Lambs" who says, "They say he's some kaaand of vampire." Or whatever. But there was a certain exhilaration in being the only one who could connect barely recognizable character actors from movie to movie at parties. IMDB is allowing that muscle to atrophy.

Perhaps I don't get out enough.

Amanpour

Man we're up late.

Amanpour

I'm at work; what's your excuse? :-)

Know what you're talking about, though. I can usually connect characters like that, and IMDB is killing it...

Still, when I can't think of who somebody is, or where I've seen them before (I agree about Scarlett Johanssen, by the way...), it's nice to have it around.

"Then I get to the B.J. Thomas part and every single time I just throw my hands in the air and say, "What the fuck?""

It's not the best movie I've ever seen, but it's certainly not the 'bottom of the pit' as a famous troll once said. It's relevant to the era in which it was released (height of the vietnam war), and I think it also stands the test of time as entertainment. Ahead of its time in many ways-- humor, pathos, sarcasm. Great cinematography, too. I loved the faceless posse, and the way the shots are nearly always framed on the duo so you see the world through their eyes.

Picking "O Brother" over Big Lebowski or Fargo is insane. It's such a slight film-- mostly broad slapstick comedy (and not particularly funny slapstick at that). Even the positive reviews at Rotten Tomatoes note that it's one of the weakest Coen brother movies. Hell, that's like picking "Bottle Rocket" over Rushmore. One is a meandering, but interesting film with potential; the other is a near-masterpiece. They're not even in the same league.

I should say one other thing about Butch. While I'm not crazy about the finished film, it is one of my favorite scripts to read. I think it has to do with how I became familiar with it. William Goldman includes a breakdown of the script in his book, Adventures in the Screen Trade, which is probably my favorite book on screenwriting. Great book if you're into that sort of thing. He does a great job of giving an idea for how a screenplay is shaped without making you feel like you're reading a textbook.

Amanpour

"Picking "O Brother" over Big Lebowski or Fargo is insane. It's such a slight film-- mostly broad slapstick comedy (and not particularly funny slapstick at that)."

Have to agree with the Wumpmeister on this one. Clooney's character was basically unbelievable. How are we supposed to reconcile his love of high-falootin' linguistics and city-slicker hair with a natural ability and affinity for uncomplicated hick music? I couldn't buy that warm, unadorned singing voice coming out of a character that had such an ornate (not to mention corny and forced) manner of city speech.

I enjoyed little bits of the movie, such as when John Goodman turns into a psycho, but overall it felt lightweight, emotionally distant, contrived. The conflict between Clooney and his wife seemed tacked-on, even though it was the supposed heart of the movie. Since we spend the whole movie being told to love this charmin' and talented guy, his wife's dislike for him is something we have no hope of sympathizing with. She just comes off as bitchy.

The blues guitar player reminded me of poor Ernie Hudson in "Ghostbusters." We all know that the three white guys are "the REAL Ghostbusters," but this guy pops up every now and then and we're supposed to consider him part of the gang, though he's given no time to develop as a character. The slapstick Klan-rally-as-comedy scene with him as damsel-in-distress really didn't work for me, either.

Bleahhh. Like the soundtrack though; it serves as a good disc to put on when my parents are over, as we all like it.

Oh lord,
I really wanted to like "Oh, Brother" but I ended up just really, really, liking a few scenes and then doing my best to forget the rest. Cyclops! Sirens! Crazy Bank Robber Guy! Radio Station! All of those are great scenes. Parts good! Sum of parts... not so good.

I admit Fargo is a better film, but my favorite Coen film is still Raising Arizona. My favorite thing about them is the dialogue. That "stupid people speaking intellectually" bit they do so well.

Ok then.

-Andrew

"There's what's right, and there's what's right...and never the twain shall meet."

Amanpour

All I'll say -- and God knows, Amanpour's heard me sneer about this one to no end -- is that you can tell a lot about a feller by having him pick his favorite Coen brothers movie.

The average joe just up and picks Raising Arizona. Shore, shore. I imagine the chippees go in for Fargo. Dark n' edgy types -- film students mostly -- might go for Blood Simple. That's fine, I s'pose. Them what's got a keen insight might cotton to Miller's Crossing. God help the man who picks Hudsucker Proxy. Me? I'm a Barton Fink type fella, which might shed some light on why I liked Man Who Wasn't There so much. And that's all I got to say about that.

-Tom

"I'll show you the life of the mind! I WILL SHOW YOU THE LIFE OF THE MIND!!!"

Amanpour

"The average joe just up and picks Raising Arizona."

Nah, I didn't just up and pick anything. I seen them all first and went with the one I liked the most. I know it's not the coolest one, but I can't help it, I wish they'd do more screwball comedies and I'm in love with Holly Hunter.

See, you can't trust the Barton Fink type folks. They're the type that waits for everyone else to take their turn, and then they go for the least obvious one in an effort to look all hip, edgy, and misunderstood.

It's like picking The Conversation over Apocalypse Now or The Godfather (1 or 2) when choosing your favorite Coppola. Poser. ;)

-Andrew

Tom Chick, how dare you leave out the Coen Bros.'s best film?

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you CRIMEWAVE:

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0088967

Is Miller's Crossing ever going to come out on DVD? I haven't seen that movie in a long time - I barely remember it, actually. I do remember liking it a lot though.

-Matthew

You know, I saw "Krull" again the other day!

The *first* time I saw it, I walked around for
weeks with a cardboard-and-tinfoil "glaive".
Which I kept leaving on the front seat of the
family car...my mom would accidentally sit on
it, with all the resultant "wacky sitcom chaos"
you might expect. Those were the good old
days!

Sorry...I just had to bring this conversation
down a notch, what with all the Coen stuff.

"my mom would accidentally sit on
it, with all the resultant 'wacky sitcom chaos'"

If it were a Farrelly Bros. movie, it would have gotten wedged in her vagina, necessitating a rather embarassing encounter with the Jaws of Life.

"If it were a Farrelly Bros. movie, it would have
gotten wedged in her..."

Yikes! D00d, this is my MOM we're talkin'
about!
:)

Thankfully, I have never seen a Farrelly Bros.
movie.

Newsweek's Fellowship of the Ring review:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/666107.asp

Wet my pants, LOTR LOTR LOTR. just a few more weeks!

I dont care if the movie veers from the books... as long as its good as a movie, im fine.

Cant say im too excited about that star wars 5 movie. the previews i saw were all fx fx fx... cmon lucas... give us more... i hope its ok.

etc

Also, David Ansen seems a reputable reviewer so when he says LoTR "has real passion, real emotion, real terror, and a tactile sense of evil that is missing in that other current movie dealing with wizards, wonders and wickedness," i wet my pants again.

Damn, I really hope its awesome. I'm dying for an epic fantasy movie done right.

etc

A recent interview with Gene Hackman, if anyone is interested. Not bad, but I wish the interviewer would have done a better job. He asked good questions, but Hackman just blew by a lot of his stuff. I wished he would have pressed him.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news10/hackman.htm

That review of LotR has me hopeful. Reading it, I realize I've got a lot of expectations for this one, despite my trying not to let myself get too excited. I wonder if an Oscar has ever gone to a movie where going in you knew it would require multiple films to tell the complete story. It's almost like you don't know how it will "end" until all three have been made.

how it will "end"

er, by that I mean you don't know if all the films will be good. Of course, if you've read the book you know how it ends.

I thought it ended with Sauron imploring, "Don't you want to hear my last words?" To which Bilbo responds, "I just did," as he decapitates him.

Damn fantasy flicks; they all end the same!

One good thing about LOTR is that all three films were made at the same time so there should be no decrease in quality of story, imagery, and acting. The same can't be said of the future Star Wars sequels.

LOTR is definitely on my "must see" list.

Okay, folks! Everyone out of the pool! The title of the thread is "What We're Watching: November." This conversation is officially passe...

Now, on to the futuristic delights of December cinema.