I'll start off..


Piers Anthony -please stop,it isn't funny anymore.

Issac Asimov -yes I'm a heretic,but I can't stand any of his books,especially the Foundation ones.Nice cure for insomina though.

Harlan Ellison -A windbag.

Robert Jordan -blaaarrrrrrrrrrgh.

-Monkeybutt

Uuuh... do we REALLY want to go here? Okay then, but please, they're just my personal preferences.

I actively dislike very few authors. I think Terry Brooks and Piers Anthony would be the only names that really cause my interest in a book to be immediately lost. Eddings&Co. might be up there too, but it's not really that I dislike their books... they just induce sleep. Oh, and Ann McCaffrey bothers me as well, but I think somewhat baselessly.

And I'm not trying to really put these authors down. I'm a (struggling) author myself and I feel bad about that. Well, except for Piers Anthony, who can consider himself put down.

Harlan Ellison is an interesting writer. Some of his works are really nice, like "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktock Man". He does put out a lot of crap, though. I don't think he spends much time on a lot of stuff.

I tried to read a Wheel of Time book once and it just didn't grab me.

Asimov is one of those classic sci-fi writers. The story's usually a puzzle of some sort, with some kind of "what if" bit of scientific extrapolation being both the puzzle and the solution. You don't read someone like him and expect good literature. You read him expecting a clever hook and resolution. His Robot stories are fun, though. He's probably a better non-fiction writer than a fiction writer.

I've never read any Harlan Ellison, but I must say titles like "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktock Man" and "I Have No Mouth and Yet I Must Scream" are pretty cool.

One of my favorite movie titles is "This World and Then the Fireworks". I've never seen the movie and I imagine it's pretty awful, but I wish I'd thought of that title first...

-Tom

Ellison's a funny writer. He's made a big deal out of being able to sit in a store window and write a story on a topic suggested by customers in a few hours. Too many of his stories read like that, like something triggered by an idea that he jumps on and finishes the story quickly but then never looks back.

I suspect a lot of great stories are written like that, but I bet a lot of those authors also have a lot of awful work written in the same manner that they don't ever publish. Ellison seems to publish everything.

Piers Anthony. Ugh. I tried reading those damn Xanth books and they were too dumb to be believed.

I have to admit that I liked some of his "Incarnations of Immortality" books, like "On A Pale Horse" etc. When I was fourteen.

Amanpour

I tried to read the first Shannara book by Terry Brooks and nearly threw up. The most shamelessly blatant Tolkien ripoff I've ever encountered. I mean, MOST of them are Tolkien ripoffs, but this one was ridiculous. He should have called it "Lird of the Rongs" or "King of the Necklaces" or something.

The supposed greatness of "Stranger in a Strange Land" also mystifies me. I dunno. I didn't try to read it until a few years ago, and it struck me as trite and extremely sexist. Maybe there was some good sci-fi underneath the dated writing style, but I couldn't deal with it.

"The supposed greatness of "Stranger in a Strange Land" also mystifies me. I dunno. I didn't try to read it until a few years ago, and it struck me as trite and extremely sexist."

I think Heinlein is overrated. I like Waldo and Magic Incorporated, one of those old Ace Doubles, but most everything else I tried to read was trite and often sexist. As he got older, I think he got hornier. One of his books had secretaries of the future going topless in the workplace. That was the same book where the lead character was cloned and then had a sex change and ended up having sex with the clone, probably some weird old man's fantasy of Heinlein.

Heinlein is vastly overrated, in my opinion. And The Number of the Beast has to be one of the worst books I never finished. Actually, it's possibly the only SF book I never finished. I think my brain made me forget the book in order to forestall permanent damage.

I used to read a lot of Piers Anthony... then I grew up. I think I stoppped reading his dreck somewhere around the age of 20. It's been all downhill since Macroscope, if you ask me...

As for the Eddings book. Sorry, I meant books. It's a forgivable error, since he and his wife have basically been writing the same book over and over. I really liked the Belgariad; momentum carried me through the Malloreon and the Sparhawk novels, but that's it. I'm not going back for more.

Robert Jordan. I think the Wheel of Time books are OK, but the whole saga would be improved if he would just finish the bloody thing and get it over with. Are they paying him by the pound, or what?

Talking about dirty old men in SF, I wish to contribute two words to the discussion: Jack Chalker. 'nuff said!

Am I the only person here who likes LeGuin? I see plenty of PKDick and Lem fans, which is cool, but no LeGuin fans? Just curious.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

I'm sorta shocked nobody mentioned Steven King.

I was thinking about why I disliked Asimov's books and come up with another one.In High school I remember a lit teacher jamming his books down our throats.We must have read 4 or 5 of his books in a row and had to write papers on them.By the 3rd I really wanted to gouge out my eyes.

-Monkeybutt

I enjoyed LeGuin, though I haven't read her work in quite a while.

Stephen King? I admire his writing. I wish he would do more non-horror stuff though. Things like The Body and Shawshank Redemption are great stories. His latest novel, Hearts in Atlantis, has a small element of sci-fi, but the rest is straight fiction. He could have easily ditched the sci-fi element. It added nothing.

"I used to read a lot of Piers Anthony... then I grew up. I think I stoppped reading his dreck somewhere around the age of 20."

I read a ton of sci-fi until I was around 20, and then I grew tired of it and dropped it completely. It's only been in the last few years that I've picked it up again. Of course I don't do nearly as much reading as I used to.

"Talking about dirty old men in SF, I wish to contribute two words to the discussion: Jack Chalker. 'nuff said!"

Well, what about John Norman and his Gor series? That was porn disguised as fantasy, and it was totally misogynist -- well, I guess most porn is. The women, many of whom have been captured from 20th century Earth, are sex slaves in the Gor books.

"Well, what about John Norman and his Gor series? That was porn disguised as fantasy, and it was totally misogynist -- well, I guess most porn is. The women, many of whom have been captured from 20th century Earth, are sex slaves in the Gor books."

Yeah, I think Gathering of Developers is going to start distributing those as part of the "Monthly GOD fun club!" package.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

There was agreat article about Stephen King in the New Yorker about a year or so back. It really changed my opinion of him, at least as a person. If nothing else, you have to admire his work ethic (unless you buy into the ghost writer theory).

Of course, I read all of his books when I was a teenager, and enjoyed them. But it seems like his entire writing style has become a series of strained similes.

What about Gene Wolfe? He's the only sci-fi writer I can read. Is there anyone who compares in terms of scope, style, or originality?

That's not a rhetorical question.

"re: Heinlein. As he got older, I think he got hornier. "

Heh, sounds like The Starship Troopers movie was right on target for him :)

Re: Eddings and Jordan...I've read one of each of their endless series, and I think you could interchange them and never know the difference. I found Eddings a bit lighter and easier to read, but really this fantasy stuff seems like the same shit over and over. There is one author I've been told is good that I haven't had a chance to read yet: Jane Yolen.

Myself, I didn't read Tolkien when I was growing up, but devoured the Lloyd Alexander Chronicles of Prydain stuff. Also the CS Lewis Narnia stuff. Again, I think a lot of it is really the same.

"Of course, I read all of his books when I was a teenager, and enjoyed them. But it seems like his entire writing style has become a series of strained similes. "

Agreed. King is something you enjoy but then outgrow, IMO.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

I think it's odd but true that a lot of the authors we've mentioned have been cited above as adolescent reads. I get the feeling that people like Eddings and Anthony don't really cite that audience as a primary target (particularly given the amount of sexual content in Anthony) and that a lot of adults read the stuff. Still, I share the experience of having read it in middle/high school, then dumped it in favor of classier stuff.

People like Alexander and Yolen, IMO, are in an entirely different category. The Prydain books and the dragon-related books Yolen wrote (sorry, it's been years) were both very classy works targeted at younger readers who could continue to appreciate them as they grew older.

Ron-

Re: Wolfe. Hmm. He's kind of an iconoclast, I think, in some ways... his writing style, particularly in the Book of the New Sun, is really unique and peerless. I often find it hard to compare other writers to him, not so much because he's BETTER than them (he's not my favorite of favorites) but because he seems to exist in a different world.

One writer I could almost recommend would be Jack Vance. Vance is a writer who Wolfe loves, and who has inspired him in the past (particularly the Dying Earth books), but the two have radically different approaches. If nothing else, it's interesting to read Vance and think about the connections.

Monkeybutt: You are a heretic for that Asimov crack. ;) Foundation boring? Well, I'll give you the later books he wrote to fill out the series, but the original stories that comprise the first three books? Nah. That's golden-age sci-fi at its best, and The Mule is one of the greatest characters in the history of the genre.

As for Heinlein, as he got older, he got both hornier and worse. The later novels that were mentioned in previous posts were pretty pathetic. However, the "future history" stories in the older The Past Through Tomorrow collection are terrific, especially "The Roads Must Roll." The premise--giant conveyor belts carrying traffic between cities--seems really silly from today's perspective, but it's a great story nontheless.

I like Gene Wolfe. I loved The Shadow of the Torturer but couldn't get through the sequel for some reason. Outside of some stories, the only other thing I read was Free Live Free which I enjoyed except for the ending.

You should try King's Bag of Bones. I really liked it. It's a great ghost story.

"I'm sorta shocked nobody mentioned Steven King."

Stephen King has been through some rough patches as a person where his writing really suffered, but he has a place in my heart as one of my favorite authors. THE STAND has long occupied a place as one of my favorite books. Sure, he's no Henry Miller, but he is great at what he does. And incredibly prolific.

I don't know that I would think of him as an SF or Fantasy guy, though. Maybe some of those elements float around here and there, but by and large I'd imagine that's why he wasn't mentioned before.

Amanpour

"Well, what about John Norman and his Gor series? That was porn disguised as fantasy, and it was totally misogynist -- well, I guess most porn is. The women, many of whom have been captured from 20th century Earth, are sex slaves in the Gor books"

Ohhhh,I missed those.Let's go to amazon.com see if they got some cheap. :)

Wait a minute,didn't one of the Gor movies get the MST3K treatment? Check out the reviews for the Gor VHS tape at amazon..amusing.

Steven King comments -I like a lot of his books,it's just usually when a thread like this pops up,he gets mentioned.Plus I'm trying to cause some trouble...heh heh.

-Monkeybutt

"I loved The Shadow of the Torturer but couldn't get through the sequel for some reason"

The second one is a bit tough. It gets great at the end, though, and the fourth book is worth getting to. I've like the whole Sun series, and I'm really excited to see how it's gonna end with Return to the Whorl this summer (fall?).

Wolfe's first, The Fifth Head of Cerberus, is a really fun book. For some reason, the fact that's it's sci-fi somehow negates it's John Barth-esque "look at me" qualities. At least for me.

Benedict: Thanks for the heads-up on Vance. I vaguely recall reading about the Dying Earth series, and that it was somehow an influence on The New Sun books. I'll have to check it out.

I liked the first Wheel of Time book. I tried reading the second and put it down a few pages in when I realized I was just re-reading the first book. I have no urge whatsoever to read any more of that series!

Terry Goodkind is another author who had a stellar first book, but I've had a VERY hard time getting into the second book. The sense of urgency from the first just isn't there to drive the story. I hope the rest of the series picks up a bit because it has promise, but I've yet to trundle through the second book.

I didn't mind the first Shannara book by Terry Brooks, even though it was just a Tolkein rip-off, but the rest aren't that even that inspired. I do like Brooks' other non-Shannara books (the Knight of the Word trilogy is quite good)

The only Piers Anthony books I enjoyed reading were the Incarnations of Immortality books, and even there they tended to degenerate to soft-core porn after the first 100 pages or so. Sigh.

I used to work in a bookstore and there were certain SF/Fantasy books that I just dreaded putting on the shelf, either because they were just plain bad (yet best-sellers) or there were just too damned many of them (cough... Jordan... cough)

I like Eddings, for a nice light read... anything after the initial 4 series (Belgariad, Mallorean and the 2 Sparhawk series) isn't really Eddings though... it's him and his wife, who has pretty much taken over and just re-written the original 4 series from different points of view (and even lesser quality). Sigh.

On the upside of things, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman... gotta love their stuff. Esp. when they team up (Good Omens anyone?)

But how can you not like Ellison!?

He rocks. He's the ultimate grumpy old man.

I wouldn't want to read his stuff all the time though, but it can be quite cathartic. There is that problem of many of the writers from older times, in that the neat, original ideas they had are now clich�, so reading them now isn't as inspiring as it used to be. I haven't read any of Ellison's novels though, but the collections of short stories are quite decent, in my opinion.

Ron-

Just a head's up: Return to the Whorl is already among us... a friend of mine has a copy. I actually haven't read through the Long Sun series, so I'm waaay behind on those.

"I didn't mind the first Shannara book by Terry Brooks"

All I know is that I loved the Shannara books. The only problem is that I read them in sixth grade. I think I'll leave them there. Whereas I've revisted Lord of the Rings a few times--and it always pays dividends--I fear the Shannara books would embarrass me. The way admitting I once liked Duran Duran might. Sheeesh.

Another series I've found I can return to is the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. I have gone back to both sets more than once and found they hold up quite well.

Amanpour

"Terry Goodkind is another author who had a stellar first book, but I've had a VERY hard time getting into the second book."

I like Goodkind because, unlike most fantasy series, each book tells its own story. The series could end with any of the books and it would have reached a satisfying conclusion.

The second book is my favorite of his. It may take a little longer to get into to, but I think its worth it. The first book is actually my least favorite (though the fifth book would be a close second).

I think Eddings is quite a good read when you're
somewhere around 10-14, without much reading
experience. I picked up the Belgariad back then
and it really got me reading.
Lately I've moved on to a bit more "mature"
fantasy books, in the sense that they're quite a
bit more realistic and they have characters as
opposed to cardboard cutouts. Katharine Kerr has
been the author of choice, both her Deverry stuff
and the sci-fi, despite elements of baseball =)

Regarding Jordan, I must say that the story as
such got a lot more interesting after the first
three books, unfortunately the telling of said
story slowed to a crawl.

On a bit of a different topic, I have felt
physical pain/nausea from a few books I've read.
Not because they're bad, but because something
happens to characters you care about.
The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen
Donaldson is probably the first one on that list,
since I suffered through almost all of those
books. Not that Covenant is much of a sympathetic
character, the ones he meet are quite nice though.
I think it's because Donaldson found out a way to
really let everything imaginable go wrong.
Then there's a part of book three in the Deverry
series that made me nauseous despite a complete
lack of vivid descriptions. It also made me hate
literary character more than I thought was
possible. Quite the feat, says I =)

Oh dear, I started rambling half-way through,
didn't I?

"The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen
Donaldson is probably the first one on that list,
since I suffered through almost all of those
books. Not that Covenant is much of a sympathetic
character,"

Well put. Those books can be a tough read in large part because Covenant is so unsympathetic. I've only recommended the books once, and even then the person only read a couple chapters. He just couldn't see living with a protagonist he could not care about from the get-go. I guess that's what I loved about the books though. Covenant has a huge amount of growing to do because he starts so low. And you're right, the characters he meets are wonderful. The books really became a part of my life for awhile.

Amanpour

"Those books can be a tough read in large part
because Covenant is so unsympathetic."

Yes, he certainly gets off to a kicking start,
doesn't he?
In fact, it happened so fast that it just flew
right by me.
Then the perpetual cringing started when he met
Elena(or was it Lena?) in the following book =/

"Harlan Ellison is an interesting writer. Some of his works are really nice, like "Repent Harlequin, Said the Ticktock Man". He does put out a lot of crap, though. I don't think he spends much time on a lot of stuff."

My Ellison exposure is extremely limited. As in, three stories I liked:

"I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" (creepy stuff, I felt like reading it due to the game)

"Santa Claus vs. SPIDER" (probably the funniest spy story ever done)

"Batman: Funny Money" (again, a pretty damn funny story. I was surprised to see he wrote it when I picked the issue up).

I also know that Ellison had a bigass feud with Johnny Wilson.

-Thierry

"I also know that Ellison had a bigass feud with Johnny Wilson."

He likes to have feuds with everyone, I hear. Is this something that happened after Johnny took over the magazines at WotC and they looked for a buyer of Amazing Stories?

>>Is this something that happened after Johnny took over the magazines at WotC and they looked for a buyer of Amazing Stories?

Nah, this was from a few years ago after CGW dared criticize "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream." Ellison sent in a nasty letter.

Ellison is a pain in the ass. I've read and seen interviews with him. He's openly contemptuous of people who read his work, and dismissive or insulting to anyone who doesn't.

I could never read the Gor books. Three or four pages in, I'd always remember something else I'd rather be doing, like giving the dog a bath or mowing the lawn.

Stephen King I really liked when I was a kid and in my early 20's. I thought Pet Sematary was a great book, and like a lot of his short-story work.

I'm thinking I didn't like Stepehen Donaldson. Was he the "Lord Foul's bane" guy? I read the whole first and second series of that set, and never had what you would call an elated moment. Just depressing, those books were.

I find that as I age history gets a lot more interesting. The wars between the orcs and men are generally pretty paltry when compared to the real wars of men versus men. Oddly, though, I still like fantasy-themed games better than tradional wargames. Hrmph.

"Ellison is a pain in the ass. I've read and seen interviews with him. He's openly
contemptuous of people who read his work, and dismissive or insulting to anyone
who doesn't."

He's also litigious. I found it kind of funny that he sued the Terminator producers for copyright infringement when the author who had a real beef about that story was Fred Saberhagen (the Berzerker series). I asked Saberhagen about that in a chat once, and he just gave a virtual shrug and said that all the imitations made him feel "original."

I just have to jump into this one. :)

I have been a faithful reader of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books. Eye of the World was one of those books that was just different enough that I fell in love with it. From that point on, I've picked up each book as it was released in hardcover.

That being said... the series is frigg'n annoying now. According to Tor (his publisher) he was originally sanctioned to write a 4 book series that culminated in a final battle at the end of book 4. If you read the first 3 books, you fully expect the series to end in the next book since he has already slain half of the Forsaken, has figured out how to sever the Dark One's connection to The Source, and Mat has become the bearer of the Horn of Heroes (or something like that). However, when the sales figures of the first 2 books came in, Tor renegotiated Jordan's contract and asked him to extend the series past the 4th book. Instead of wrapping up the current story and having the next series of books come as a a prequel or a sequel, he completely scrapped the 4th book and made it open ended. Books 4 - 6 had no direction and were obviously written as filler. Books 7, 8, and 9 has moved the story along finally, but are still too slow and long winded.

I will continue buying the books, but geezus RJ, it's time to finish up the series and move on.

Ellison's quote after hearing about the Lord Of The Rings movies:

"I don't want to see another movie about those furry-footed fuckers and that goddamn ring again."

Which just goes to prove what an arrogant, conceited prick he is. "Another movie"--like there's been a whole legion of them. There was *one* and it barely counts. He's just expressing that same kind of pseudo-eggheadian contempt for a popular phenomenon (the type of phenomenon he'd never be able to create himself) because he thinks it makes him look smarter than the rest of us. I bet he doesn't watch TV either--"except for PBS". Bah.

Gee, who pissed in my cereal tonite? :)

Jeff (who played and liked "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream")

"Which just goes to prove what an arrogant, conceited prick he is. "Another movie"--like there's been a whole legion of them. There was *one* and it barely counts."

Good point. There's been one, and Bakshi's warmup, Wizards, was a better movie than his LotR attempt.

Ellison just revels in being a prick. That's his schtick.

imo, i think the Bakshi LoTR is very good, though its only half of the trilogy (ends at about halfway through the Two Towers). and the Bankin and Rass were pretty decent as well, though on the muscial side.

what i like about bakshi's lotr is that it animates in a "realistic" style, the animations feel "real" . . . it fits the novels well since everytime i read LoTR, Tolkien seems to try as much to bring life to the world. . . not to appear as fantasy but as fact. . . or just natural. maybe he read too much Borges. . . anyway, i liked the score for the movie as well. . . theres a doom and gloom to it, but with some triumph to it! i love the last scene with Gandalfs return, with the music and his tossing of his dagger in the air!

also, it really has to be seen on a big screen as well (saw it at college on big screen). every video ive seen of Bakshi's LoTR doesn't do it justice.

---

Quote:

what i like about bakshi's lotr is that it animates in a "realistic" style, the animations feel "real"

---

is rotoscoping that tracing thing Bakshi did in the movie with all that red and black stuff? well, uhm, i thought it was nicely done! still there was nice cell animation or what have you, very detailed.

but really, Bakshi's animation is different from any ive seen by anybody else. . . especially in LoTR. oh well, i dont know much about animators though.

etc

There is an animated version of Return of the King. I'm not sure if it's Bakshi or not... it pretty much picks up midway through the Two Towers and finishes the story.

Can anyone else confirm if it was Bakshi who did The Return of the King animated movie? I'm pretty sure it was, though it was more of a normal animated movie than all the rotoscoping of LoTR :)

The return of the King movie was a Rankin Bass production, similar to the Hobbit animated movie. Want to make a Tolkien nerd cringe? Just start singing "Frodooooo of the Niiine Fingers, and the Riiing of Dooom". :-)

Least favorite sci-fi fantasy authors: Sharon Green and Jack Dann.

In defense of Heinlein, I grew up on his juvenile stuff, like "Space Cadet","Citizen of the Galaxy", "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel", "Starman Jones", "Rocketship Gallilieo", "Red Planet" and the rest. I never got into his adult stuff, as it was too dry for me. But I must have read the ones I mentioned maybe 20 times a piece.

As for favorites, I've been liking Clark Ashton Smith, David Brin, L.Sprague de Camp, Lawrence Watt Evans, Neal Stephenson, and Keith Laumer.

Oh, God. Rocketship Galileo. It's always been just a bit too "Golly! Gee whiz!" for me--even 20 years ago, when I might have enjoyed it more. Even sappier than the Lensmen books. :-) If I were to pick up Rocketship again today, I'd have to counter it immediately with a big hard SF novel like Eon, or an obvious farce like Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers. Failing that, I could bash my head repeatedly with a big rock to purge the Heinlein from my brain, and numb the resultant pain with beer.

Come to think of it, maybe I should just go straight to the beer. :-)

The accumulators are crackling with barely restrained power!

Since this thread allows for favorites anyway:

George R. R. Martin - His current Fantasy series is an absolute *must* read. Asher, I know how you feel about his stuff and I'm surprised you haven't mentioned him. Asher once likened it to a fantasy version of the War of the Roses. Yup, add some ******* and you've got it (Oops, I almost said *******). In fact, so far it's the best fantasy I've ever read. Do yourself a favor and give the first in the series a test drive if you're unfamiliar with it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553573403/o/qid=982968974/sr=8-2/ref=aps_sr_b_1_2/107-1555276-6414903

As for King, yeah, weird how that was such and adolescent obsession. I've got four or five of his lastest sitting on my shelf and still haven't gotten around to them yet (I do admit to enjoying his Gunslinger stuff though). As for his SF work, I think "The Running Man" was top notch and had a great pace that hooked you from the start (yet another one of those endless examples of how the movie is nothing like the book). In fact, I think the only movie I recall ever being better than the original book was also a Stephen King effort: The Dead Zone.

"As for favorites, I've been liking Clark Ashton Smith..."

Him? Wow, that's a blast from the past. Didn't he do stories set in the Lovecraft Cthulu mythos?

"George R. R. Martin - His current Fantasy series is an absolute *must* read. Asher, I know how you feel about his stuff and I'm surprised you haven't mentioned him."

The only thing I'll say against his Game of Thrones series is that it's not done and probably won't be for at least five more years. Get hooked at your peril.

I'm about 250 pages into Game of Thrones, and I gotta say--it is VERY good. I like the shifting perspectives, which, though it isn't exactly an original device, seems fairly unique for this genre. But what I like best of all, so far, is that there is a "toughness" to it--even in just the little I've read so far, I am getting the sense that he is just gonna let some bad sh** happen to some of the main characters, which is creating great suspense, even early on. The lack of sentimentality has really hooked me in.

"But what I like best of all, so far, is that there is a "toughness" to it--even in just the little I've read so far, I am getting the sense that he is just gonna let some bad sh** happen to some of the main characters, which is creating great suspense, even early on. The lack of sentimentality has really hooked me in."

That's a good way of putting it. No one's safe in this series.

I'll probably get the current one. Is it out in paperback yet, anyone know? It's book three, whatever it's called.

"I'll probably get the current one. Is it out in paperback yet, anyone know? It's book three, whatever it's called."

Storm of Swords. Probably won't be out in paperback until November.

I'll wait for the paperback, then. All reading it will do is make me want the next book anyway.

Storm of Swords is quite good. I loved Game of Thrones (probably one of, if not the, best Fantasy book I've read) and I liked Clash of Kings, but found it lacking... something.

It's still great, just not as good as the first book. Storm of Swords, however, picks right up again and is amazing... easily on a par with the first.

"Storm of Swords is quite good. I loved Game of Thrones (probably one of, if not the, best Fantasy book I've read) and I liked Clash of Kings, but found it lacking... something."

I really like the subplot with the Lannister noble, the crippled one, in Clash of Kings. It was easy to see that Martin was somewhat taken with that character. He morphed from a villain into a complex character that I actually found myself rooting for, sort of.

I'll happily wait for Storm of Swords to come out in paperback. I read the other two long enough ago that I'm not thirsting for the next one. Had it been out in hardback when I finished the second, I probably would have purchased it in a moment of weakness.

Yeah. Tyrion (the crippled Lannister noble) is a great character. Probably my second favourite of the bunch (well, my favourite of the current surviving characters at the moment).

Jaime Lannister's character really develops in Storm of Swords though... I hated the guy in the first two books, but now I feel sorry for him!

"Jaime Lannister's character really develops in Storm of Swords though... I hated the guy in the first two books, but now I feel sorry for him!"

Yikes! He's an absolute bastard in the first two. If Martin can make me feel sorry for him in the third book, he's a great writer.

I'm interested in what's going on beyond the Wall. That storyline really picked up in the second book.

Dang, now I'm getting the itch to read the third book.