I got a gift cert for EB this christmas and I'm trying to decide which of these two I might like most. I'll probably end up getting both of them, but I have to at least participate in the illusion that I'll show some restraint this year (although I have no idea why this year should be any different than any other year).

Anyhow- has anyone had a chance to mess with B-17? I'm not too worried about the bugs. I'm sure I can massage it to run. My concern is that it's going to be more of an strategy/RPG-like game than flight sim. Does anyone remember Team Apache? I just saw it in a bargin bin at Half Price Books and laughed. I HATED the role playing elements of that game. It felt so incredibly amaturish (the poor grammer in the UI, the lousy voice acting, etc.,), yet it seemed to get decent reviews on USEnet and the usual sim review sites. B-17 seems to be getting the same sort of fairly positive comments, but I'm not sure if I can trust my peers on this one. I really enjoy bombing missions and modern avioncs, but I have no idea if I'd like to fool around with a norton (sp?) bomb site.

On the other hand, I'm almost positive I'll enjoy BoB, because I like Mig Alley a lot. However, BoB isn't being sold in my neck of the woods for at least another 2 weeks and I can hear my gift certificate calling me...

Opinions? Mark, Tom, either of you gettign ready to do a 60 sec review of either? heh, or is scharmers going to handle flight sims @ Q23?

"I really enjoy bombing missions and modern avioncs, but I have no idea if I'd like to fool around with a norton (sp?) bomb site."

Tim, Tim, Tim, even *I* know it's a *Norden* bomb *sight*. :)

I haven't tried BoB or B-17, but after MiG Alley Rowan shot to the top of my "automatic trust" list, so I'm looking forward to BoB.

However, I heard some pretty intriguing things about B-17 from Bruce Geryk. You might try to hunt down his review (on Gamespot?). He did, however, make it seem more like a Team Apache situation.

-Tom

"even *I* know it's a *Norden* bomb *sight*. :)"

LOL!

But I'm, uh, referring to Ralph Kramden's neighbor's way cool web site. It really is the bomb. Uh, no, I don't have an URL. Do a web search. ;)

Thanks for the tip on Bruce's review. I've got to go look that up.

I have both B17II and BOB and I can say that BOB is a much more complete and well-rounded simulation.

There were a number of key aspects of B17II that were cut out of the final release to make Hasblow's Christmas ship date. Things like multiplay, decent fighter flight models, and engine management in B17II.

If you treat B17II as a pure bombing/crew management action game with lots of eye candy then you will like it. But it will wear thin after a while.

As for Battle Of Britain it has one of the best dynamic campaigns I have ever experienced plus it has full working multiplay. The ability to dogfight with hundreds of aircraft in the air at once has to be seen to be believed. It's an amazing hardcore WWII simulation.

Thanks for the input Sean. I'm definately looking forward to BoB. It should be in my area in just a few weeks. I'm still undecided about B-17. It's too bad about the flight model. It would have been fun to fight the fort off the runway and into the sky. I have to say I'm not too upset about multi or the figher flight models--both would have been nice, but neither is a deal breaker for me (it does suck that it was rushed out for Christmas when it could have been an awesome title). I really hope the crew management deal is done better than in Team Apache. I may just pick this up and see what it's like...

RE: B17II

Tim,

The crew management does work but there are many glitches. Like the amazing disappearing navigator/radio operator in the Action View which then causes a hard crash to desktop.

Also the instructions for swapping crew members amongst aircraft in Squadron Campaign mode are non-existent and therefore requires a lot of trial and error.

In the manual it mentions you must be careful how you treat the engines in the B17 lest you overheat them. In the game itself it appears the detailed engine management missed the final cut as you can abuse the engines all you want (eg. 100% throttle) and it has no ill effects. The original B17 Flying Fortress game (and even the geriatric SWOTL) had better engine management.

Lastly be aware that many of the beta testers have complained that the last beta had more features intact than the final release master of B17II. Shades of Gunship! indeed.

One thing you have to hand to Hasblow - they have an incredible knack for f**king up perfectly good games and programming teams. :-(

Cheers,
Sean.

"Lastly be aware that many of the beta testers have complained that the last beta had more features intact than the final release master of B17II. Shades of Gunship! indeed.

One thing you have to hand to Hasblow - they have an incredible knack for f**king up perfectly good games and programming teams. :-("

Wow, that's just sad. Really sad. I'm completely blown away by that and I'm not even sure why (since this is the second time, indeed!). Gunship 2k was my very first sim and I had high hopes for the return of Gunship. It hurt to see the game treated so poorly.

Heh- maybe some day the source code for B-17 will show up on an anonymous I-drive account. ;)