Someone's gotta ask:

How do the game magazines and Web sites pay? Do you make $300 for a Gamespot review or $1200?

Does CGW pay as well (or as poorly) as PC Gamer?

What about gamesdomain? What kind of money are we talking here? Come on, don't be stingy. TALK!! :)

Speaking only for myself, I managed to get a few IOUs from the good folks at GamePen back when I was writing. ;)

Seriously, I never managed to make much cash from reviewing games. If I did, however, I would probably not be terribly interested in sharing it publicly here. What is your real name, what do you do, and how much do you make at your current job, Willow? ;)

Nevertheless, I'm curious what everyone else has to say, just the same.

At Computer Games Magazine our standard rates are $200/page. Unless we don't like you, then we pay in old copies of Daikatana.

$200 a full page in the magazine, you mean? Oh my. Even trade magazines pay better than that.

In many ways, the various writers who hang out around here are competing with each other. I doubt anyone will share their tax filings with the public. :)

Tim: You don't have to use your real name. "Willow" certainly isn't mine.

I don't think willow wants to know a specific freelancer's annual income, but the rate information like Robert provided. I suspect that info isn't too confidential. I know Andrew Bub (and possibly others) posted in another thread that the amount of work and rates used to be better before the economy started to tank.

I am also curious what freelancers (not just for games) make. Or, better yet, how does gaming freelancing compare to other freelance work.

-DavidCPA

PS..Didn't know where to post the following comment so I will tack it on to this post. I was glad to see a Kevin Rice review in the current issue of CGM. He did very good work at dailyradar before it shutdown and I am glad to see he hasn't completely left the industry.

Magazines pay what the traffic will bear. In the "old days" (um, like a year ago) GameCenter at CNET was paying, what, 65 cents a word or something amazing like that? Them days is gone, folks.

From what I recall Gamecenter paid by the article and actually had some of the highest rates in the industry, above Gamespot.

Used to be.. $300 for a nicely-sized review in the bigger online mags and most print was about standard. Maybe a little lower. $500 for bigger pieces. These days I'm sure it's mostly lower.

--- Alan

"$200 a full page in the magazine, you mean? Oh my. Even trade magazines pay better than that."

Really? I've always heard the opposite-that freelance writing isn't very lucrative compared to other type of writing jobs. At 200 a full page ad, that would be, what, something like .50 cent a word? That's not a good wage for freelance writing? It seems pretty good to me. Maybe I'm unclear how many words it takes to fill up a print page.

Also, what is meant by "trade magazines," and what do they pay per page?

"Tim: You don't have to use your real name."

True enough. Mine was just a knee jerk reaction. I actually hope more people respond to the thread, because, like I said, I'm interested too.

It comes to about 29 cents per word for CGM one page articles. They average around 700 words.

--Dave

Gamecenter paid $0.60 a word at one point. I wrote several 1500 word previews that paid $900 each. That didn't last, though. They cut their rates and cut the word counts.

Prima pays $5000-7000 for a strategy guide. Brady's in the same ballpark. Gamespot pays quite a bit less for their game guides, but most of them are also shorter than the Prima guides.

I don't write for Gamespot so I don't know for sure what they pay for reviews, but I think it's in the $200-300 range. They cut their rates also after Gamecenter was closed and the whole dot com meltdown was in full force.

I'm not going to disclose rates for the publications I do work with. There are CGW guys who read these boards, so they can post rates if they want to.

You can't really make a full-time living as a freelance game writer at the moment. Before you could, but not now.

"Really? I've always heard the opposite-that freelance writing isn't very lucrative compared to other type of writing jobs. At 200 a full page ad, that would be, what, something like .50 cent a word? That's not a good wage for freelance writing? It seems pretty good to me. Maybe I'm unclear how many words it takes to fill up a print page."

Freelance magazine writing is tough. Most of the publications really don't pay that much. You need to get into the glossy, high-circulation mags to really do well.

Most of those awful "how-to" articles I've seen about freelancing for magazines say that you need to spin your research for one article into several articles to really make it. That works for regional publications in different regions or trade magazines where you can write for different industries about the same topic, but it doesn't work all that well for games.

I think game writing freelancers need to branch out a bit. I mean, there aren't that many game publications out there, certainly not ones that pay.

If I was freelance, I'd be trying to dig up work for all the console magazines/sites as well, plus computer and electronics reviews for general computer pubs (PC Mag, Computer Shopper) and gadget mags.

>If I was freelance, I'd be trying to dig up work for all the console magazines/sites as well

That's a million times easier said than done. With so many mag/web site closures, the market is flooded with tons of qualified people. Right now it basically comes down to contacts and the relationships freelancers have with the editors out there.

--Billy

Jason may soon have the opportunity to test the freelance waters and see what "real" work is :P

The console mags don't use as many freelancers. They're the mags with the 75 word reviews, after all.

Like Billy says, it's not that easy. Page counts are shrinking, so the freelancers who are already established with a given magazine are getting most, if not all, of the freelance work.

Freelancers could be more creative and pitch feature stories instead of asking to preview or review the latest game. They require more work and take more time, which makes them less attractive, but when you pull one off they put you in the good graces of the editors.

And Mr. Anonymous, that's pretty tacky.

13.3 cents a word here. I'm so cheap, it's remarkable. Just never did the math before... then again, consider that the word-count is huge and the pay is normal. :-)

None of us is in it for the money... it's the BABES, man... the BABES!

"Freelance magazine writing is tough. Most of the publications really don't pay that much. You need to get into the glossy, high-circulation mags to really do well."

I had heard the same. I know a guy who interviewed Fannie Flagg when the movie Green Fried Tomatoes came out. This was a few years ago and I can't remember the magazine (some sort of womens magazine, but nothing I would ever buy) but he only got like .05 a word. Feh. I suppose for a decent wage, you need to be working for Playboy, Sports Illustrated, etc.

"And Mr. Anonymous, that's pretty tacky."

Ditto. That was uncalled for.

"13.3 cents a word here. I'm so cheap, it's remarkable."

Heh. How much would you pay for an interivew with Fannie Flagg?

---

Quote:

They require more work and take more time

---

My apologies to Mr. Cross. His post struck me as a bit condescending. So I jumped before thinking. Sarcasm is not my forte.

>>"And Mr. Anonymous, that's pretty tacky."
>Ditto. That was uncalled for.

No kidding - making fun of someone's livelihood is always a gas. Sheesh. Anonymous posting is really cowardly.

Stefan

---

Quote:

but he only got like .05 a word

---

.05 a word was probably the most I ever got for one of my horror stories. Have plenty of comps though. I still write short stories but I've realized that a novel is the way to go. Still, short stories are where I learned the craft. It's a tough length to master and sell, however.

Fiction writing I don't know a lot about, but I suspect it pays far less than mag writing once all the magazines that pay in copies only are factored in.

I do know that in the mid-80's I read an interview with Glen Cook (Black Company series) and he said at that time, with several novels in print, the most he had ever made from writing was appox. $24,000 in one year. I think very few authors make a living wage just from fiction writing. Gene Wolfe was an editor for a trade journal for years before he felt like he could give that up and focus just on fiction writing.

A lot of writers, and just about 100% of the poets, rely on teaching positions to make their money.

I remember reading an article a couple years back that said the average novelist makes around 5-8k per novel. Considering that a genre novel is 75-100k words, it doesn't take Einstein to realize the payment-per-word isn't squat.

That said, getting a huge advance on a first or second novel can be the kiss of death. I've read countless interviews/stories with/about writers who scored a big advance on their first book and when they failed to earn it back they were dropped by their publisher. And making matters worse, no one else would touch them because they (the author) then had the reputation as someone who couldn't deliver the goods.

As for selling short fiction, selling short stories is nice, but to me the point of selling short stories isn't money, it's about getting exposure and fiction credits.

--Billy

"As for selling short fiction, selling short stories is nice, but to me the point of selling short stories isn't money, it's about getting exposure and fiction credits."


Well, I've never thought of selling my short stories as being nice (I'm too dead serious about my writing), but I do agree that money isn't or at least shouldn't be the sole reason for writing short stories. That would come under hackdom. For me it's about the perfecting of the craft that comes first, doing the best I can, then getting them out there for folks to read. Credits *are* nice I suppose but, personally, after a point they are no longer that important.

>My apologies to Mr. Cross. His post struck me as a bit condescending. So I jumped before thinking. Sarcasm is not my forte.

Jesus, I've taken worse than THAT! You should see the mail I get whenever I say one thingamagig is better than someone's other favorite doodad. =)

But apology accepted. And believe me, I'm all too cognisent of the state of the games journalism industry today. Plus, I believe I KNOW what "real work is." =P

I only meant to say that not many freelancers in the games business seem to be attempting to write OUTSIDE it. Surely, you guys have other talents/training/interests? Why only write about games? I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was easy, as though a handful of letters to Electronic Musician or Gear or Maxim or whatever the hell would suddenly solve everyone's problems. But from speaking with my colleagues and from all their conversations with freelancers, it appears that not many people are even trying.

"I only meant to say that not many freelancers in the games business seem to be attempting to write OUTSIDE it. Surely, you guys have other talents/training/interests? Why only write about games? I didn't mean to imply that I thought it was easy, as though a handful of letters to Electronic Musician or Gear or Maxim or whatever the hell would suddenly solve everyone's problems."

I'm looking for a full-time job somewhere. I'll probably just go back to tech writing, but the problem now is that the tech industry isn't hiring.

If I'm going to write about things that don't interest me, like the examples you cited, I might as well draw a salary. That's how I look at it.

However, I'll probably start looking for freelance work in other fields since I don't know how long it will take me to find a tech writing position. The market is really scary right now.

Here's another way to make money from your writing. Sell ad space in your novel's plot.

http://archive.nytimes.com/2001/09/03/business/media/03BOOK.html

Yeah, it's getting nuts. Some agent came up with the idea of selling tatoo ad space on NBA players. I don't know if it's going to happen or not.

I guess at some point everything will be commercialized.

"Sid Meier, tell us about your new golf game."

"Well, as I was at the Tower Tee Driving Range hitting my new Callaway driver after enjoying a Bud Light, I started thinking about a new Electronics Arts game I could make and...."

Hey, if I make QuarterToThree a major part of a novel, will you guys commission me?????

(excerpt)
I looked up at the Coors clock above the bar. It was a quarter to three. It's always a quarter to three when you're past 40, your partner's been killed, your wife becomes a lesbian, and your dog runs off to drive sheep in New Zealand. I opened up my laptop. "Hey Joe, hook my modem up," I said to the barkeep. I look at the clock again. Still fucking quarter to three. I punch in the URL. www.quartertothree.com. These guys understand. They've been there. They've carved out a piece of time and made it comfy. Made it home. The blood runs slower at this hour and the soul becomes loose-jointed.... I feel better already.

Heh -- sure. We'll send you a t-shirt after the novel's published.

Here, I fixed your product placement for you... this rings a little more true:

"I look at the clock again. Still fucking quarter to three. I installed AOL off the FREE 500 HOURS cd they sent me... I punch in the URL. www.quartertothree.com."

"$200 a full page in the magazine, you mean? Oh my. Even trade magazines pay better than that."

Some do. Many don't. Thumb through a copy of Writer's Market.

I don't know what "trade magazines" whomever wrote the above was referring to, but most non-game outlets pay around 20 cents a word in the trades market.

But those rates are mitigated by the giants that do pay more ($0.60-0.90 a word) and the fact that some of them require fewer hours than game writing does. The problem with game writing is the hours you have to put into a game to review it. That's where it all breaks down and ceases to be "cost effective", particularly for those 1/2 pagers. (Grins to Ben)

Now, I'd still rather do 20 hours of game research than 10 hours of "hard" research any day of the week.

CGM's payrate is on the low end, maybe, but it's certainly fair, and it actually really helps that I genuinely like the magazine these days. I certainly can't say that for every outlet I write for.

Now, if that sounds too kiss-ass let me say this: they really need to cut paychecks more frequently.

Cheers,
-Andrew

"that sounds too kiss-ass let me say this: they really need to cut paychecks more frequently"

Don't worry, you've received your last one.

"...and it actually really helps that I genuinely like the magazine (CGM) these days. I certainly can't say that for every outlet I write for."

Oh come now Mr. Brave Anonymous Guy, this was by far the more potentially risky line career-wise.

-Andrew

It's kind of sad. Two years ago, I made a decent living off HGames.com (which then turned into GamersClick.com earlier this year)... well, not overly good, but enough to supplement my education. Then working for Mplayer.com, I made more money than I could spend. Unfortunately, now I'm stuck working for 9 bucks an hour at a stupid Canadian Home Depot clone, where I tell people what kind of lock I think they should put on their house. It's rather pitiful, and I hate it. I realize that I shouldn't really expect much more at my age, but I know I can do better--it's just that my industry of choice is in a bit of a downturn. Maybe I'll start writing for a porn mag. Heh.

"Don't worry, you've received your last one."

Since I have a check for Mr. Bub sitting right here on my desk, I'll have to disagree... ;)

Hey Tom, can I put a deadbolt on a screen door?

--- Alan