Well, the Gamespot review hates Desperados. I so wanted this to be good. When are we gonna get a good game with this setting?

http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/0,11114,369650,00.html

Sigh.

What's worse is if you've played the Avalon Hill boardgame called "Gunslinger." Makes you less tolerant of anything western and sucky.

IGN liked it. Don't have the link handy.

Gunslinger rocked. I used to play it at a gaming group that met on Fridays at the University of Virginia, way back when (no, not quite when Thomas Jefferson was there, but close). I'd love to see a Jagged Alliance-style (and quality) game with a similar wild West theme.

There's also that gaming system that's set in the west but brings in supernatural elements. I'd like to see a computer game version of that. I can't remember what it's called, though.

I also used to play TSR's Boot Hill a lifetime ago. That was kind of fun too.

I once set a Call of Cthulhu adventure in 1875 Colorado. It was amazing how much easier the players found it (in terms of believabilty), compared to modern times or the 20's.

Something about the Western motif implies mortality and adding the supernatural to it (in this case a ghoul -and worse- infested mine) was great fun. I used the whole "After a bank job gone bad the gang is trapped in a box canyon" storyline. Then they find a mine shaft and soon wish they'd just faced the law a la Butch and Sundance.

-Andrew

SSI had one out a long time ago(back in the early 80's) called Six Gun Shootout.Played it back then till I puked.

It's floating around on the 'net for the Apple 2 and C64 emualtors.

-Monkeybutt

Mmmm, Six Gun Shootout. I think reminiscing over SGS was the last converstation I had with wumpus that didn't degenerate into him shreiking about how Counter-Strike is the Best. Game. Ever.

Actually, SGS is sort of a precursor to Laser Squad, which was in turn Mythos' prototype for X-Com.

-Tom

"There's also that gaming system that's set in the west but brings in supernatural elements. I'd like to see a computer game version of that. I can't remember what it's called, though. "

That sounds like DeadLands to me. The cover had a skeleton wearing a marshall's outfit, if I remember it right. It might have even been a TSR game, but really can't recall. I do remember the game was very nifty, with gangs of guns for hire adventuring through a wild west populated with spooks and werewolves and other things that go bump. Some of those games were really great.

Yeah, Deadlands. That's it. There's a pen and paper game, a miniatures game, and a card game.

BTW Kazz, I just saw that Wizkids, makers of Mage Knights, have signed a deal with DC to do a miniatures superhero game. Pre-painted, with the built-in dial for combat resolution, etc., just like Mage Knights. Could be really cool.

There's also a World of Darkness (White Wolf) setting in the wild west for Werewolf: Apocalypse and a supplement for a rather quirky, magical, and conspiracy ridden early North America for the Castle Falkenstein series, a steampunk RPG that long predates Arcanum.

Deadlands is the big one though.

I like the idea of any of these, or a non-fantasy tactical strategy game being set in the wild west. I missed Six Gun Shootout and Gunslinger somehow but I do remember Boot Hill (and it even had a solo adventure or two on tactical maps before Ambush!). Something like that but randomized with a strategic game ala X-Com would be perfect. Perhaps the players could be railbarons trying to expand through territory held by different factions (cattlemen, farmsteaders, goldminers, Federal troops and beaurocrats, assorted bandit and native groups).

I'd say mixing up the Railroad Tycoon strategy and Jagged Alliance tactical roleplaying and merc bidding ala Deadly Games, with some diplomatic system would rock.

Six Gun Shootout! Thanks!

I saw this game once at a friend's house about 17 years ago but never knew the name and had been unable to find it at theunderdogs.org or other abandonware sites. I =thought= it looked like an SSI game.

A couple of google searches and I've found it along with a decent looking freeware Apple //e emulator.

You guys have made me a very happy geek.

"I just saw that Wizkids, makers of Mage Knights, have signed a deal with DC to do a miniatures superhero game. Pre-painted, with the built-in dial for combat resolution, etc., just like Mage Knights. "

Ya-could be really cool! Also, WOTC is redoing the D&D Chainmail tabletop rules, which could be really neat. I just wish miniatures gaming wasn't so flippin' expensive.

They also used the six gun shootout system for a couple other games too.Galactic Gladiators or something like that.

On the Underdogs site,they host the big Apple 2 wargame archive now.SSI goodies and a bunch of other stuff.

-Monkeybutt

Well, the Mage Knights stuff isn't too expensive. You can buy a starter set and few boosters for $50. Considering they're already painted, you're good to go.

For me it's the time. It's an entire Sunday afternoon to go to a hobby store if I want to play a game like Mage Knights. Sure, I might spend just as much time with a computer game, but I'm home and I can pause or save to do something else if I have to.

I think Wizkids has hit on a good formula with the pre-painted minis. It's probably the best chance the hobby has to expand.

"Also, WOTC is redoing the D&D Chainmail tabletop rules, which could be really neat."

Steve Jackson had a great set of rules for this, Melee and Wizardry, I think they were called. He then incorporated them into a campaign book called The Fantasy Trip. It was all so simple to play and was designed for play on hex paper. We used an oversized, heavy stock hex paper with a plastic overlay we placed on it and used a grease pencil to draw the dungeons on the fly as the players explored them and we marched our minatures around. It was a lot of fun.

Could someone explain to me what the point to unpainted minitures for Battletech and the like was, from a business perspective? I never got it; is the dorky painter that common?

Three words, Jason: Custom. Mize. Ability.

And, yes, you'd be surprised how many "dorky painters" there were. I never played, but I've known a lot of people who did, and they didn't all paint their own pieces (but a lot of them did) but they all took great pleasure in the fact that they could paint their own pieces. Heck, a lot of them got someone else to do the painting, and they just specified how they wanted them painted.

I have a custom cabinent full of 15mm warfare minatures and 25mm D&D minatures (about 4k). Most are painted. But the concept of painting these figures grew into a cultural pastime, seperate from actually playing the minature warfare battles or D&D sessions. Back in my tabletop gaming days, we use to plan special gatherings around painting these dang things. The wargamers were more serious about painting events. Whoa to those who couldn't paint a lick in this group. On the other hand, the D&D painting sessions were more informal, with painters having less skill and more tolerance on what was considered a respectible paint job. Orcs and what not didn't have to be painted according to some TSR Monster Manual scheme; so painting, say a group of 25 humanoids, could go a lot faster than painting 25 Hessians or Turcoman archers. Looking back, this painting subculture definitely enhanced the overall pleasure of gaming-- well worth my time and expense. I certainly had a bunch of free time on my hands back then. Now, I'm lucky to get our D&D group together on a bi-weekly basis, nevermind planning a painting event. Hrumph. Mb it's time for a minatures firesale at Ebay...

Raphael

"I have a custom cabinent full of 15mm warfare minatures and 25mm D&D minatures (about 4k)."

Man, that's a lot of minis. Your house must be interesting, what with cabinents that open to reveal miniature soldiers and humidors that contain fragrant cigars from distant shores.

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Quote:

Man, that's a lot of minis. Your house must be interesting, what with cabinents that open to reveal miniature soldiers and humidors that contain fragrant cigars from distant shores.

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I think I'd like to see a photo of the big cabinet with the collection of fragrant ISOM sticks. ;)

I never did get into miniatures back in D&D times. A) I wuz broke. B) I wuz a "dorky painter". My lunch money went into rule books, Judge's Guild modules and fanzines (Alarums and Excursions, anyone?). I had a few of favorite characters but my group found the limitations of the tabletop could get in the way of the IC roleplaying. If our players started worrying more about what's on the map than why they're there our DM would get lazy and adventures became a series of trap evasions and tactical combats. Campaigns could become little more than a narrative excuse for the next set of DM dungeon crawls instead of rich soil for player inspired initiatives and interactive storytelling (which is real work for a DM but ultimately more rewarding).

It could partially be this background that makes me such a pain-in-the-butt when it comes to the issue of free will in games.

At any rate, I still have my copies of Melee, Wizard and In The Labyrinth (along with Advanced Melee, Advanced Wizard, and the Codex). Steve Jackson went on to use alot of these basic ideas in GURPs.

"I never did get into miniatures back in D&D times. A) I wuz broke. B) I wuz a "dorky painter"."

I suspect most people had these problems, so the challenge was to work past it. I was (and maybe still am) a decent amateur sculptor, so I would use modeling clay to whip up some approximations of monsters beforehand. They did leave greasy spots on the grid surface we used, which could make it hard to draw on that part with the washable markers, but that was really the only drawback. Physical damage was fun to play out: "Falafel the Elf's horse gets hit by a falling boulder" *THUMP* "He's flat now."

I was also known for using Smarties (the USA kind, not the Euro kind) to represent smaller monsters I expected to die quickly, which I would then eat when they were killed.

Here's a shot of "The Cave": (Note: If this doesn't work, I'll send Mark these screenshots so he can post em)

Raphael

Here's a couple of minature shots:



This is my 15mm Minifig late 12 c Crusader Army



This is a shelf of warrior class D&D minatures

Raphael

Are you married Raphael?
Also, can I come over to your house and play?

-Andrew

hehe-- yes, and with kids. But as u can see, "The Cave" accomodates many visitors...

Raphael

I promise this will be the last photo before Mark and Tom t00b me for busting their bandwidth.

Here's a photo of my Command Center.



All three computers are Macintosh. However, the iMac (left) and the Blue & White G3 (right) are dedicated servers running my mac gaming website and chat room-- Clan MacGaming

Raphael

"Mmmm, Six Gun Shootout. I think reminiscing over SGS was the last converstation I had with wumpus that didn't degenerate into him shreiking about how Counter-Strike is the Best. Game. Ever."

I like to think of Six Gun Shootout as the precursor to Counter-Strike.

I dunno, it just bugs me. How anyone-- especially a notable game reviewer of obvious talent-- can be a "fan" of the FPS genre and not acknowledge the genre's debt to such a groundbreaking title remains a mystery to me, even to this day. Yeah, and that Lance Armstrong, just another cyclist. (stifling yawn) Whatever, man. Whatever.

Bah. Enough about that. Let them eat statistics!

I enjoyed the pics! Neat little enclave you've built for yourself, Raphael! And I forgive you in advance for using the word "Mac" and "Gaming" in the same sentence.

Macs? I like Big Macs. They're tasty. Especially the Teal colored ones. not the baseball player from st louis who does horse drugs. harhar (im a cub fan! go McGriff!)

The Gimp isnt down in the cave is he? otherwise I'm all game to play some Myth and Marathon...or diablo 2...what else is there? oh yeah, quake 3.

I'm sorry i just had bad experience with Mac customers from my old helpdesk job. ;-) I remember troubleshooting a customers Macinstosh network for almost a WHOLE FRIGGIN DAY... it still gives me nightmares!

etc

Talk about geek envy, nice setup there Raphael!!

Holy cow, Raphael, that is an impressive cave! Mine is a cluttered mess of books and games, but only one PC... what do you do besides game writing for a living? Tech support? Miniatures shop? PC maker? All of the above? :)

Thanx for the many compliments. Aside from hiking
in the Rocky Mts, the Cave is my hideaway. Lucky
for me, the Ms understands this. There's plenty of
gaming to be had at the Cave, including wargames
and table top RPGs. It even sports an industrial
aircleaner and ventilation system for getting rid
of all that cigar smoke I'm constantly creating.
LAN partys tend to be a regular thing around here.

Believe it or not, gaming's not my main gig. I
also dabble in the military technical advisor-
consultant field; and, I maintain commo with the
SOF community...

Raphael

"Believe it or not, gaming's not my main gig."

Looking at your amazing collection... I not only believe it. I assumed it. ;>

Raphael, as a man in escrow on his first house, you are my hero. Here I thought I had scored big by getting half a spare bedroom for my gaming stuff, but The Cave is a work of art.

Congrats on your new home. It's an awesome adventure owning one.

Trust me, been there done that on the half room deal. After several years being with the ms, (and few children later), she finally blessed my exodus from the upstairs study (which now has powder pink walls), into the garage. Besides, she was getting sick of the cigar stench, even though I had four giant HEPA filters running at max trying to keep the upstairs fresh. The Cave ended up being a favorable upgrade methinks.

Now, I'm jonesing for house with a three car garage. ;-)

Just to keep this all in perspective for the rest of us, I'm in the dining room. I have to keep the desk reasonably clean and my kids are crawling all over me, the PC and the desk if I 'pute during the hours of 7AM and 9PM. There's not a night I sit down that I'm not wiping greasy little boy fingerprints off my monitor. I've had a screwdriver bit in my CD-ROM drive and at least one CD ruined beyond repair by the same little boy fingers that create the prints.

I'm jealous. ;)

If I'm ever out your way Raphael, I'll be sure to ring you. It'd be great to sit in the wonderment of your garage for one day and gape in awe at the sight of your pad while saying "so this is how the other half lives". :)

--Dave

Great setup indeed. My wife "suggested" I no longer smoke cigars downstairs in my basement office. We have a very nice finished basement, which doubles as an overflow guest room, library, and piano room, as well as being the area where the laundry room is. My cigar smoke was making the place uninhabitable, so no cigars for me while I play games now. It's off to the deck or, if I'm a good boy, I can smoke upstairs in the living room while playing the PlayStation 2 (Grand Tourismo 3 gets a lot of play these days).

I used to have the upstairs spare bedroom. Then came the baby. Got banished to a small corner of the basement. I covered the walls with about 100 movie posters. The rest of the space is filled with game boxes, manuals, loose CD cases, magazines and books. It's cool in the summer and freezing in the winter. Late at night I can hear the mice skittering between the walls. Late at night I wonder where I will go if we need the space for all the baby stuff we're getting.

Maybe I should have taken up needlepoint as a hobby...

Heh. Well I have most of an "office" -- which is actually a fairly large room, just off the living room. My wife has her computer down there, too (currently, right next to mine, so we can game together, as she's getting more into it), so I actually feel like I have plenty of room. (Not as much as some, granted, but more than others...)