Though I have some issues with the underlying gameplay in B&W (it's intentionally monotonous and repetitive), I think the creature part of the game is amazing. Check out this little anecdote that got forwarded to me:

"After completing level 3 but before hopping through the portal, I decided to teach my leopard how to catch. First I threw rocks, and he learned to catch them. Then I tried trees, he learned to catch them too. Then I thought "hmm.. lets see if he can catch people" so I went and picked up that silly man that cannot be killed in level 3 ("OH YOU BIG BULLY!" "OH MY EYE!") and threw him at my leopard. After about the 4th try, he caught him! I was so proud of him that I quickly went up and rubbed his belly, forgetting that doing this while he is holding something will promt him to eat it. What a terrible surprise, but what happened next is the real icing on the cake. Since this man cannot be killed, my leopard proceeded to digest him and pass him out as poo AND HE WAS STILL ALIVE! Do it for yourself to hear what the guy says when that happens..."

Heh. Heheheheh. I didn't know they would catch stuff!

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Ok, you win. That 1-ups the evil tiger shitting on my dead ape.

As an evil god I sacrificed that unkillable man. The funny thing is I got a huge worshiper bonus... but that annoying voice now came from my temple.

-Andrew

"That 1-ups the evil tiger shitting on my dead ape."

As if we needed more proof of this timeless axiom: THE ASS IS FUNNY.

A thousand years from now, some guy will fart, and millions will laugh. That's just the way it is.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

That is one funny story Wumpus !! :-)

>What I don't understand is how some people defend the gestures as integral to the gameplay, then blithely offer up the "zoom to the temple" as an alternative-- completely defeating their own argument in the process.

This from the guy who so passionately advocated giving players the option to perform spells other ways (referring to keyboard shortcuts).

Yes, the game has some tedious and repetitive tasks. Most of them can be overcome by planning, strategy, and understanding how the game works. I never have to feed my villagers, because I set about four or five from each village to be fishermen, and one or two farmers. That keeps the store pretty darn full. Not enough wood? Try sending lots of wood through the portal before heading to the next world. Or cast the occasional forest spell. Or teach your creature the create wood spell, and attach his kindness leash to the wood flag (you can attach it to individual need flags wherever they are!).

If any of the town management seems monotonous, it's only next to the greater interaction of messing with your creature or impressing villagers. I mean, you have to do a lot more town management in AoE, Starcraft, etc. It's just a side effect of these "build towns, conquer your enemeis" games that you kind of have to be everywhere at once. Being 3D makes it tougher on Black & White, but I gotta say that the camera control is better than most fully 3D strategy games.

And most of the town management is actually quite optional, believe it or not. It falls under the "being Good is work, being Evil is easy but less rewarding." Don't want to maintain your town? Set up a handfull of breeders to keep the population up and sacrifice villagers at the altar to gain big boosts of spell power instead of trying to feed everyone. It's easy, but your towns won't grow as big and influential.

My gripe with town management is that you have to dump food to the worshippers at your tower if you don't want them to die off (which is fine if you want to be evil). I think they should go to the nearest pile of food, field, or food store when they run out, putting a hold on the praying but keeping you from having to feed them. I just dump off food there like 10,000 units at a time so it'll last a long while.

After getting very nearly to the end of the game, I basically think this overall:

The game is really very good overall. It does a lot of things we've never seen in a game before, and is endlessly explorable--after 25 hours (on the game clock in the saved game room) I still discover totally new things about the world system. I complain to myself about some aspects of the game, but gee, it's not like they stop me from wanting to play. And if I can't stop playing, then that's probably the strongest indication of the game's quality in the end.

It is NOT the greatest thing ever invented, though. It's not some kind of life-changing experience. Neither was The Sims for that matter (got real tired of that in a week). I think a lot of the backlash has to do with hardcore gamer expectations that this game would finally somehow be The Ultimate Game and have nothing wrong with it, which is pretty much unreasonable for almost any product. We're responsible for that expectation ourselves, really--it's not like EA or Lionhead promoted the game more than most other big AAA titles.

I think some hardcore gamers might feel the same way about Xbox. Even if its games are really good and better than most things on other consoles (and that's an "IF"), there are people who somehow expect Xbox to usher in this new era of game playing that we can hardly imagine now. And nothing could do that--the best it could do is be a really great console with fun and interesting games.

I think the PS2 got some of that backlash too. It was going to usher in a gaming revolution; instead it's just a graphical upgrade.

I don't know why people seem to be complaining for such little things...ie gesture, 3d viewing, micromanaging...as if none of you have ever played a game before.

imo I think its a great game...its a helluva a lot more fun and replayable then alot of games I've got recently.

my complaint...only three skirmish maps and five campaign maps...smells like an add on to me.

btw, the unkillable guy on the second map...hehe. doesn't he sound like Woody Allen?

etc

just an added thought...the game is riddled with details...like the pets catching and throwing. just recently I was surprised when I actually saw my newly reformed pet Turtle lay down a crate!

It's kinda cool to see your pet surmise the village and then choose something to do...or just breakdance to the clapping crowds...what other game offers a Godzilla sized Turtle to breakdance to worshipping whiny villagers?

etc

>only three skirmish maps and five campaign maps...smells like an add on to me.

Three skirmish maps, I'll give you that. (wait...aren't there like 5? Some that require co-op play online? I'm not sure)

Five single-player maps though, is PLENTY. Just you wait. Starting with #3, they get nice and long. I'm on hour 25 and I'm about 2/3 done with the fifth map.

Yeah, I love it when my creature shows off for the crowd. There are a few things creatures will do to impress villagers when they line up to watch. Sometimes I swear my Lion is "preaching." The people line up and you can see his head nodding up and down, moving side to side, like he's addressing them. He'll dance, too (and the villagers watching will join in!). He's flexed his muscles twice, in a very "Hans and Frans" fashion. It's great. If you're zoomed in, you can hear the people ooh and aah and cheer. It never gets old. =)

The details are really amazing, and they just keep coming. Not only have I never played a game that let you do so many things in so many ways (all with a rather basic interface, considering what you can do), but they seem to have a unique reaction to all of it!

The guy you can't kill sounds just like the Sol Rosenburg character from the Jerky Boys.

Well... I think that in truly great games those little things get so overshadowed that they cease to really matter. Look at Civ, one of the greats by pretty much any measure. The graphics weren't top-flight, you could sink a battleship with a phalanx (rarely, but still), or kill off a whole stack of armor with a single rifleman if you got lucky. There isn't that much luck in the world, I don't think. But it didn't matter. The game was too good. The little things were just little things. I think the little things only get really annoying when seen in the context of a larger annoyance like overall gameplay or failed expectations. To put it another way, if a game is as good as a Civ, or a Half-Life, or a AoE, the little things just don't seem to have the same power to annoy.