pretty good game. . . i had this game collecting dust since it didn't play too well on my old PC. . . I've recently have been replaying it and its pretty good. . . probably the second best Monolith game (after NOLF of course!). anybody here play this game?

i particularly am surprised how well the graphics have held up . . . they are pretty good still (especially the weapon fx). . compared to titles that came out at the same time as it.

alsp i think the games a steal at the ten bux ive seen it sold for. . .

etc

Yes, I would call it the second best Monolith game. And the 'lith guys have always done a good job with creating cool weapons! -- blood, shogo, blood2, nolf, you name it.

Huge bonus points for including that razor terrorball in Blood2, the one from those cheesy 80's horror flicks.. what the hell was it called?

PLUG: The SHOGO soundtrack is excellent, too, and you can hear it at the gamebasement radio page!

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

"Huge bonus points for including that razor terrorball in Blood2, the one from those cheesy 80's horror flicks.. what the hell was it called?"

Phantasm, I, II, and III. Remember the cheese tag line from part II? "The Ball is Back!"

Ah... Shogo. I love that game. Granted, you could put a great big mech in almost any game and I'd be happy :)

It's funny. Now that Monolith has NOLF under it's belt, people are starting to praise Shogo a little more. Used to be if you mentioned Shogo in civilized company (not necessarily the people you'd normally mention Shogo to in the first place :) you were spit on. But I've always liked it. Very anime-ish... cool mechs and nice graphics.

I only fooled with the Shogo demo, but I recall that the chief complaints were that the AI was quite bugged and the game at times simply wasn't fair, killing the player with a headshot as soon as he would turn a corner.

The game definitly had style, though.

The game definitly had style, though

Yeah, and it had some humor...so it didn't surprise me that NOLF did too.

Quotes from the game (sorry Bub, why didn't I think of these when you asked for game quotes a few months ago?):

Die, ya hear me?

When I find that guy, I'm gonna rip his leg off and kick his ass with it!

Ugh. I despised Shogo, only partly because of the awful state of its initial release. The level design, the spare graphics, the scale popping back and forth, the "humor", the storyline. There's a reason Shogo is a regular bargain bin denizen, but I'd say it's unsafe at any price.

-Tom

"Ugh. I despised Shogo, only partly because of the awful state of its initial release. "

Yeah, but you didn't like Outlaws all that much, either. Shogo was a solid b-grade FPS shooter.

I dunno, Tom. I'm beginning to wonder if your license to FPS should be revoked. ;)

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Outlaws multiplayer was heaps of fun the times i played it. there was a great balance between the weapons. . .probably the best out there for an fps. . . imo of course.

etc

You know, Kingpin got a bad rap, but it was actually an amazingly fun multiplayer game with clever, balanced weapons. What made it especially worthwile was this neat teamplay mode built into the game-- "bagman."

In "bagman", $50 bills constantly spawn at the center of the map. Each team's goal was to pick up as much as they could and run it back to the team safe. Once you got a certain dollar amount socked away in the safe, your team wins.

The tricky part is, your safe could be robbed-- up to several hundred dollars at once. So it was always a challenge to balance offense and defense-- not to mention the hellish combat zone that was the money respawn area in the center of the map. It was far more interesting and definitely had more nuances than your standard CTF.

But the reason I bring this up is because of the "quotes from the game" section. I swear to this day the different voice quips from the game still make me bust out laughing. Not because they're funny, per se, but because it's hilarious to hear a ghettoized female gang member screaming "HOW YOU LIKE THAT, MOTHERF**ER??!?!" immediately after you've gibbed someone in a gory fountain of pixels.

... especially when you consider the pasty white guys playing the game. That puts it way, way, WAY over the top. ;)

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

how about Sin with "Dead dumb @itch." hehe those were prety hilarious. . .and they sounded more corny/over the top then serious gangsta talk.

i also thought Sin was pretty good patched and on a p2 machine. the "Alice/MC Escher" multiplayer maps have still not been done as well as they were in Sin.

Kingpin always felt like a newer version of Sin to me. . . pretty fun for awhile.

i actually prefer Sin then Kingpin and THEN Soldier of Fortune. SoF was the "overrated" fps for me last year. still though, these 3 can;t compete with the original Duke Nukem, that game is still more fun.

btw, do any of you still play Build Enine games? i think that was one of the best 3d engines ever! nothing beats duke nukem, blood and outlaws! even redneck rampage, shadow warrior and jedi knight were great Build engine games. i still have duke nukem, outlaws and blood on my hd. there so small a footprint on my hd.

. . . i remember the days of duke nukem and Quake on T.E.N. That service had a cool ranking system. . .

anway, i ramble again.

etc

I'm pretty sure the first Jedi Knight, Dark Forces, used its own engine, which was also used for Outlaws. I was under the impression that neither game used the Build engine.

Does anyone know for sure if this is correct?

-Tom

oh aye, my bad, Dark Forces and Outlaws used the INSANE engine. though i always thought they resembled the build engines alot!

etc

Outlaws was cool. I'm surprised we haven't seen more westerns.

Actually the INSANE engine was the video playback engine used in Rebel Assault, I believe. Jedi Knight and Outlaws used LucasArts own stuff... Outlaws I believe was modified from Dark Forces.

Outlaws is one of the great underrated FPS games. I put it on my list of "10 Essential" FPS games for one article (Scott Miller took issue with its inclusion, because I left off Wolfenstein, which I find hard to take seriously). Its multiplayer maps were fantastic. One in particular had great sniping areas, but each had an Achilles heel, where a player could sneak up and take you out without you even knowing they were coming.

It had great cut scenes, some of the best music, terrific levels... a great game that people overlook because its 3D engine was Build 2.5D-quality in a post-Quake fully 3D world.

"It had great cut scenes,"

Ugh. Cartoons. What's worse, cartoons that didn't relate to the actual gameplay. It introduced characters that you figured would be bosses, but they never showed up in the game! And how about that "twist" at the ending involving the little girl and the pistol? Double ugh.

"some of the best music,"

Granted.

"terrific levels..."

I remember liking an early ghost town (second level?), but I seem to recall Outlaws degenerated into mazes like that interminable sawmill level and canyons threaded with ledges.

"a great game that people overlook because its 3D engine was Build 2.5D-quality in a post-Quake fully 3D world."

Granted. That was certainly one of my problems with it. Also, I didn't try the multiplayer much, but it was clearly among the best available at the time. I seem to recall it was also the first game with reloading and stamina?

I'd love to see more Western-themed games. Wumpus and I recently waxed nostalgic about that tactical SSI western shootout game, Six Gun Shootout. Then we promptly fell back into arguing about whether Counter Strike was Game of the Year.

-Tom

"Outlaws multiplayer was heaps of fun the times i played it. there was a great balance between the weapons. . .probably the best out there for an fps. . . imo of course."

Another great thing about multiplayer Outlaws was that it performed fairly well with modems over the Internet. And this was during a time when LPB's were fairly non-existent and hardly any kind of tweaking was required when compared to something along the likes of a Quake, etc.

"You know, Kingpin got a bad rap, but it was actually an amazingly fun multiplayer game with clever, balanced weapons."

Absolutely! Kingpin is a *fantastic* multiplayer game and still garners equal playtime at some of the LAN parties I go to.

Speaking of westerns, did anyone ever play the Avalon Hill boardgame called "GunSlinger"?

"(Scott Miller took issue with its inclusion, because I left off Wolfenstein, which I find hard to take seriously)"

What, being first doesn't count for anything anymore these days? ;-)


Getting back to westerns, did anyone ever play the Avalon Hill boardgame "Gunslinger"? The use of concurrent moves via those cards was simply brilliant. That was my favorite game to play at those smelly -- and by this I mean the participants -- boardgame conventions. Well, that and Blue Max. And MB's Shogun. And those Lost World booklet games. Good Lord I'm scaring myself right now. Anyway, I've often wondered if Gunslinger would translate well as a port to the computer.

I just read how redundant my last post was. Sorry. (but it works a little bit in a really stupid way)

"Then we promptly fell back into arguing about whether Counter Strike was Game of the Year. "

Counter-Strike is the best multiplayer FPS game in the last three years. I'll stake my.. er.. reputation on that. It may not be your cup of tea-- which I find really hard to understand given the mod, mod, mod, mod world you live in-- but nonetheless, it's a fact.

I mean, hell, I can empathize with people who just never got into the whole multiplayer FPS thing. But literally every single gamer I know who has the slightest interest in FPS games is into c-s. Just take a look at how c-s has taken over the competitive FPS scene, too.

Hell, you might as well try telling me that Half-Life wasn't one of the top 10 PC games of all time. It just ain't so.

Anyway. Did you guys run through Requiem, 3DO's angelic FPS from early 1999? Like Undying, it's a real b-grade FPS gem. The "freeze time" power-- which is so friggin' cool-- even predates the Matrix by a few months!

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Well, you sort of know those of us here on the messageboard, and speaking for myself, I enjoy a lot of FPS games. In fact, when I cared enough to really try, I reached the top 10 percent of players in the UT ngWorldStats for Deathmatch.

But I don't care one lick about Counter Strike.

Why you say? Because first of all, I don't particularly like the one shot one kill when playing on a dial-up where lag can kill you just as fast as your own stupidity. I don't like Half-Life's netcode. No patch has ever made it work properly for dial-up users that I've seen. Finally, the time investment for CS is immense to get good at it and I don't have the time. It's much more fun and easy for me to blow off steam in a Q3A deathmatch. No hassles, pick a server and shoot.

So there... not every gamer who has the slightest interest in FPS games is into CS. Literally.

--Dave

"Why you say? Because first of all, I don't particularly like the one shot one kill when playing on a dial-up where lag can kill you just as fast as your own stupidity. I don't like Half-Life's netcode. No patch has ever made it work properly for dial-up users that I've seen. Finally, the time investment for CS is immense to get good at it and I don't have the time. It's much more fun and easy for me to blow off steam in a Q3A deathmatch. No hassles, pick a server and shoot. "

WHAT YOU SAY??

I think you're not giving the game a fair shot. Notably, the netcode has changed radically in the last 6 months. And as for time commitment-- I'm not sure that's true at all. And there are tons of modem players who play the game religiously. I suggest you give it another shot..

"So there... not every gamer who has the slightest interest in FPS games is into CS. Literally."

True. There are some FPS fans I know who actually didn't like Half-Life. That doesn't mean it isn't one of the best PC games ever, either. ;)

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

"No patch has ever made it work properly for dial-up users that I've seen." - Dave

"And there are tons of modem players who play the game religiously. I suggest you give it another shot.." - wumpus

You are both right. With the current state of the netcode, dial-up players have an advantage over LPBs. I never play on servers that ping more than 100 to me, and if someone is there with a 400+ ping, I can't touch him if he moves. This happens with all HL-based games now. I was playing Day of Defeat the other night, and I emptied a full Thompson magazine into a guy at close range. We were strafing the same direction, and my crosshair stayed steady on him for the entire 30-round burst - not a scratch. He then shot me dead with a short burst from his MP40. It's enough to make me reinstall my modem.

btw, whats valve working on BESIDES TF2. shouldn't they be making a worthy sequel to Half Life? I think they should make a Half Life in the "sneaker/thief" tradition! forget multiplayer after TF2!

btw Delta Force 3 LW isn't so bad. . . it sorta resembles Counterstrike in some sense, (or vice versa). plus the long range distances in DFLW are much LONGER than CS. DFLW is a good diversion from CS imo, and its netcode seems pretty stable (and fairly even) for both cable and dial up users.

my few netgames with CS (around a year ago) were ho-hum. . . ill have to give it a try again. . though im kinda tired out with team based fps games. . .not too many ppl actually PLAY in team spirit (at least the non clan servers), though i hear the CS addicts adhere to team play.

etc

You can throw another vote for Shogo in from me. I played it through three times because I found it so entertaining. The feel of massive destruction you got in the mech levels was great and the standard FPS parts had some nice tight weapons as well.

Tack on another vote for Outlaws as well I had great fun with that game.

As for CS I have to say I enjoy that too although my fancy has turned to Front Line Force (www.flfmod.com) lately because of the lack of one shot kills. It incorporates actual gameplay elements that make working as a team manditory if you hope to have any success as a team or otherwise.

-- Xaroc

"btw, whats valve working on BESIDES TF2. shouldn't they be making a worthy sequel to Half Life? I think they should make a Half Life in the "sneaker/thief" tradition! forget multiplayer after TF2! "

C'mon. Do you really think Valve _isn't_ working on Half-Life 2? If so, I've got a bridge you might be interested in...

I can only imagine the web carnage that will ensue when the first concrete screenshots and info on Half-Life 2 emerge. Ooo. I get all trembly just thinking about it.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com