Because the other thread is starting to get long.

Hey, does anyone know what the "Protection I" skill does (or any of the other Protection skills, for that matter)? My Thane picked it up when I hit 10th yesterday, and it's a use-able skill (you can drag the icon to the quickbar), but I have absolutely no clue what it's supposed to do.

I really wish the game had better right-click info. For most of the spells and skills, all you get is the name of the spell/skill. Very helpful.

I'm not positive; but I believe you select a party member to "protect" and then you'll try to block hits meant for them.

That was one of my group's theories. The other was that you use it, and then absorb damage meant for the character that you use it on. We've experimented with it a bit, and it's difficult to determine what it's actually doing.

I am fairly sure that Protect transfer some of the monster aggression from the target to the Protector. As a Cleric I routinely generate lots of aggression with healing - when the Tanks Protect me they routinely get tons of messages saying "you are protecting Dan!" during battle which we believe means that they are taking some of the aggression that I am generating. This means that protect keeps the monster turned onto the tanks and keeps them from turning to the Cleric or caster being protected.

Guard and Intercept are different.

Dan

You assign Protect to another character. From that point on, a certain amount of that character's agro is transfered to you.

If you assigned it to the group cleric, for example, you will get his agro when he casts a heal spell. Protect is usually used on healer and nuker classes.

Protect II and III are the same as Protect I, but they take more agro and will Protect against more critters (I believe Protect I will only transfer agro for 3 critters at the same time. On pulls of 4 or more, one of them will ignore the Protection).

Ben, right-click the spell and then hit shift-i to get more info on spells. I don't know if this works for abilities too, but it was patched in for spells. It's much better.

Protect is for shifting some aggro from what I've heard, like Jim and Sharpe say.

I made level 24 with my cleric last night killing undead monks in Llyn Barfog. They were red or purple to me, but I was with a level 29 cleric and a level 26 mercenary, so we did ok. The only problem with the frontier lands is that you can't bind anywhere near them. It's a good 10 minute jog to get to where you want to be. That's due to the RvR to keep players from binding near potential battles. I find it a bit aggravating.

Just a little more on some abilities you may get after Protect:

Guard: This is a shield skill. If you are standing near (and I'm talking right next to) a player, you have a chance to block an attack aimed at them. Higher level versions of Guard allow you to block against multiple attackers (2 with guard II, 3 with guard III).

Intercept: Allows you to "take a hit" for your target. You get no benefit from armor absorption, so typically you get hit for much more than your target would have been hit. There is no upgraded version

Engage: Another shield skill. It allows you yo block arrows being shot at you from your target. Target the critter, hit your engage hotkey, and run towards them. Engage only works if the target is not currently being hit by someone else; if your mage pops the target with a spell, engage stops working and you lose your bonus to block.

That about sums up the skills that I had to search everywhere to figure out. :) Kept getting these with my Paladin and wondering "What the is Guard I?".

Hey guys, thanks a ton. Even the Prima guide didn't mention this stuff. As an eleventh level warrior I pride myself on being beaten sensless for my comrades protection. I go into battle using plague (small aggro builder) all the time (which is effective), but I could be doing so much more. Question: do you only have to hit the Guard button once, and then you can perform other special attacks? Or do you have to keep hitting the guard button for it to be effective.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Jim. You have been extremely helpful. =)

I like to think of the Prima Guide as "the manual." It doesn't offer many strategies (just a few pages, really), but it does have a bunch of hard info that the manual should have covered.

Guard is a "set and forget it" ability. You only have to target a fellow player and turn it on once. On a subnote: Guard's chance to block is based on your Shield spec. It is 5% + .5% per skill point, adjusted by your shield's condition, bonus, and relative level compared to the Mob.

Protect is just like Guard in that it's a "set and forget it" skill. Protect always works and is not based off of a skill.

Intercept allows you to absorb one attack and then must be reset. I have only used it once for testing purposes since, well, it typically generates more agro than it's worth (since there is no absorb, your cleric suddenly has to heal 34% more than he would have had you just managed the agro and used Protect).

>right-click the spell and then hit shift-i to get more info on spells. I don't know if this works for abilities too, but it was patched in for spells.

This also works for magic items, to tell you exactly what an item does, allowing you to quickly compare relative benefits.

I'm as addicted to Camelot as I've been to any game in a long time, even though (or perhaps because) I haven't played MMORPGs since UO's original release. I like grouping, I like playing solo -- I just like exploring the huge gaming world. The only thing that annoyed me was the fact that there was no way to tell what spells did, and it was pretty difficult to navigate, and Mythic has addressed both concerns in patches by adding the Shift-I command and the compass (which you have to use Shift-C to activate for new characters). It's a great game.

Stefan

11th lvl Sorceror on Lancelot/Albion "Desslock"
7th lvl Thane on Iseult/Midgard "Dopisi"

I agree--it's a lot of fun. I just restarted in Midgard (Guinevere) with a Skald, because there are just too damn many Thanes. Granted, it's a fun class to play, but my enjoyment is reduced when I'm merely one of four Thanes in my group. I blazed from 1st to 6th in just a few hours last night--it's faster when you know the ropes already.

That travel song that the Skald gets just plain rocks. I don't know if I'll ever be able to play another class again. They'll all seem slow and sluggish by comparison.

>because there are just too damn many Thanes. Granted, it's a fun class to play, but my enjoyment is reduced when I'm merely one of four Thanes in my group

Heh, I chose a Thane because I thought they were rare. Everyone I was playing with chose beserkers for fighter characters. That's the same reason I chose a Sorceror as opposed to a traditional Wizard or Cabalist.

I kind of like choosing hapless characters and making them competitive (or not) - I deliberately chose to develop skills that I thought most people would ignore, like Shield and Parry, just to have a different experience.

Stefan

I did the same thing with my Paladin. Everyone I ran into was a 2-handed sword Paladin, so I went with Crush and a Shield. Turns out there are some great hammer quests that no one who did them were able to use, so I'm getting all these items from my guild.

Speaking of guilds, what is the deal with these? One of the guys in our group had a bad experience where his guild tried to extort money from him and then threatened to break his virtual legs, so I'm sort of avoiding the whole guild issue for the time being.

That's Hilarious! Some guilds are really abusive though from I hear they'll tell you what character to roll not letting you choose what you want. Kick you out if your not playing anough basicly they just take everything to seriously. but Obviously it's useful to have a steady group of partners who you know and trust and who won't get you killed.

Also I think I may not be paying after the month is up. I just didn't realize how slow leveling is. It's been a month now and I don't even think anyone is up to lvl 40 on the percivial server And some of those guys play 24/7. I bought this so eventually I'd be able to participate in realm vs realm conflict. But I'll have to limit myself to one character and spend hundreds of hours playing whack a mole to even get that far.

The hole pk system is inheritently flawed as I think mark brought up on the last thread. I read an interview with mark jacobs where he stated that no a lvl 30 would have no chance against a lvl 50. Well fair anough but a better question would be, would an entire group of lvl 30's conviebly have a chance in hell against one lvl 40. I think not (pure casters not included) In fact if a lvl 35 was smart he could probably waste
the entire group too. There's a few things they could do about this like droping magic resistance based on lvl with players as well as chance to hit. That would probably help alot though level would still make a huge difference.

Eek I ended up writing a rant not my original intention. Also I still think they did alot of things right. To name a few there tradeskills system. Only allowing each player one skill to choose from and actually making the things they craft better then the npc's. Also the roleplaying servers. It's about time companies realize roleplayers and well most everyone else don't mix. It just creates resentment on both sides when there slaped togather so having a specific server for different playing types was a great idea. Also obviously as it's been said before it's an all around better version of Eq.

More eek! It wasn't just a rant it was more of a short halfassed poorly writtin review. Back on the subject I don't regret my purchase as I never realized till now just how much potential this Genre has One day it could be one of my favariots.

Um, Doug? Are you paying the monthly fee, or not? You have left me utterly confused.

Ah forgot to mention that part didn't I? Also don't worry if I had to read that instead of write it I'm sure I'd be confused to. I think at the start of the post I wasn't sure. there is some sort of mystical untangible addictive quality to these games (or we just like to see are Avatars grow big). But I'm just not having fun. I'm unwilling to pay 13 dollars a month when most of my time will be spent in Unexciting slow combat with shallow stragic decisions with the occassional long drawn out fed ex quest thrown in for fun. So Yes Rob I am completly and utterly sure I probably wont be paying the monthly fee.

Some guilds take guilding way too seriously, but it's the same in any online game, no matter what you call it: a guild, clan, tribe, squad, wing, kampfgruppe, mob, or union. Many are in just to have fun with fellow players on a regular basis. Some are fanatics. Others are nuts. Percentages may vary.

--- Alan

Unfortnatly the EQ uber guilds came to DAoC expecting the same game and finding out...that it's completely different.

Except for RvR, there is no need to get 30+ people together for a raid. No epic encounters that require a week of planning, no uber items that can only be found on the 9th floor of the dungeon from hell, no planes that require you to find a player who is level X and plays class Y in order just to get in. So the mentality of "you play what we tell you to when we tell you to" that comes from guilds like Fires of Heaven is completely out of date in DAoC.

Also, a lot of guilds are too focused on the idea of the emblem. It costs 300gp to get a guild emblem, which explains the extortion of money. They put so much stock in this little graphical accomplishment then they get down right nasty about it.

"It's been a month now and I don't
even think anyone is up to lvl 40 on the percivial server And some of those guys play 24/7."

There are several level 40 characters on Lancelot. And quite a few more between 30 and 40. I don't think the leveling is slow at all, actually. I mean, isn't the level limit only 50 right now?

Leveling is fast in DAoC compared to EQ, though if you only have a couple of nights a week to play, you'll really slow down once you hit the twenties.

And if you want the game for the RvR, I suspect you'll need a level 35 character before too long to really be able to play RvR.

I like the non-RvR just fine. The game needs more high level, non-RvR content though.

Aside: I have a level 11 wizard as well as my level 24 cleric, and while I think the wizard is not a well-designed character, the spell effects are far and away the coolest in the game.

"I just didn't realize how slow leveling is."

You havn't played EQ I guess.

"I kind of like choosing hapless characters and making them competitive (or not) - I deliberately chose to develop skills that I thought most people would ignore, like Shield and Parry, just to have a different experience."

The Skald is definitely not hapless--less nuke-oriented than the Thane, but still a perfectly good melee fighter. The only downside is that you don't get shield specialization, but I offset that by using a two-handed weapon (the Great Sword does LOTS of damage).

Ignoring Parry and Shield is a bad idea if you have them--they are really crucial to making an effective melee character, largely because some of the styles require them. My Thane's best axe style can only be performed after a parry, and if you don't pump points into that skill you won't be using that style much. Typically the opening move styles are cheaper (in Endurance) for greater effect, so they are worth using.

For my Skald, I want to put a lot of points into Parry simply because I don't have a shield. I need to offset that reduced defense factor...

Well yes I understand it took people who played Eq alot as much as a year or more to max out. Where as it will probably only take between a full month and a month and ahalf for a really hardcore guy to max out on DAOC. Still that's a hell of alot of hours for us regular humans.

Still I want to try out a bunch of other classes and see if anything strikes me. After DAOC I can't go back to muds so maby I'll end up staying just so I can "pretend like I'm an elf".

On some unrelated cool stuff I havn't tested this out anough to be sure how much more affective it is but if your soloing an enemy much slower then yourself make sure your in sprint mode then after you attack fall back for a second wait for it to come to you then you can hit it again. Two attacks for the price of one. Also is it just me or is rapidly plowing through yellows oranges and reds with one or two other people alot more affective then an 8 man group fighting purples?

Doug, my son was in a group level 16-22 that took down a low 30s Troll. Granted it was a long battle and they lost 2 players but they took him down. And since Mythic typically keys things off of percentages I would imagine it would be easier for a group of 30s to take down a 40.

DAoC even without the high end content is still a very good game. And they will be adding more content including housing BEFORE the expansion. A game this popular as it is, will get more support.

I fear the RvR imbalances as well, but after a thought... i think most "average" players can make 30 - 40 within 3 months. Its doable. Also, peoplei n my new guild were able to take down a couple of purple Albions with a group of six! I have faith that Mythic WILL listen to the fans. One thing that makes me believe they will is the way they upped the Rogue and Archers... instead of nerfing them! upping Rogues to have evade III at level 10 was a big upgrade, and level spec for wep specialization leaves more room for them (for archers too). In other games you would NEVER see a change like that so close to relase (or maybe they just knew Rogues were hampered?). It took Verant more than six months to make Rogues and Warriors viable in EQ... so Mythic has shown that they can bend there "vision" to make players happy.

Anyway, great game that will continue to be supported.

etc

My take on the amount of content is this: if it's a choice between a game overflowing with content that doesn't work, and a more realistically-scaled game that does work (and that will add more content later), I'll take the latter. I don't know if that's what it comes down to, but DAoC's flawless launch makes me suspect that perhaps it is...

Here's a question.
What is the point of nighttime in games like DAOC? I mean seriously. Gameplay wise. Because all I do is either sit around and wait for sunrise, or wander off impatiently and then get lost. Does the "realism" of a day/night cycle add to people's enjoyment of games like this? To me, it's just added downtime that I can't wait to end.

I've never considered night to be downtime. Night to to me means that there are different creatures out and about (the nasty dirges and some ghouls). The torch makes it so the game is totally playable, with very little actual play differences. I would guess that nighttime makes rvr hunting very interesting as the players can hide easier. I've read discussions about the merits of keeping your torch off in the wilderness so that your character isn't lit up like a christmas tree. I should point out that no one can see the light from another's torch, but the avatar is brighter if your torch is on (so I'm told).

Plus, you would miss some incredible sunrises and sunsets, and there wouldn't have been such a cool Halloween moon!

"Aside: I have a level 11 wizard as well as my level 24 cleric, and while I think the wizard is not a well-designed character, the spell effects are far and away the coolest in the game. "

yeah, I saw a wizard and theurigist today as i was playing my level 5 friar. BIG difference in spell effects from Albion to Hibernia. And even Midgard Thanes have cool looking spell effects, whereas a hibernian Champion has a puddly little blue wave for debuffs.. why they didnt give the Champions a Eldritch debuff spell cast look is beyond me. Anyway, its pretty much true Hibernia is behind the curve in terms of visual look and feel compared to the other 2 realms imo. Though, it still looks cool in ceratin parts. It has a more "cheery" feel to it compared to the other 2 realms.

anyway, just another aside.... i hear by expansions release that daoc content would be a gameworld almost 2x the size at is now! just a rumor, but im expecting something on par with Kunark with EQ, maybe even bigger!

Also, i like the day and night cycles... very pretty, though at night sometimes missing a creature in the dark can get you killed especially if it blends with the ground textures.

etc

Well, realism comes to mind, Jeff -- but I suppose that's sort of a lost cause in a fantasy game! :-)

I'm curious -- does it affect anything when it's night? Do theives (there are theives in this game, right? Did I spell theives correctly?) get a bonus to sneaking or picking pockets or anything?

I also think that Blizzard had a great idea with regard to night-time -- give some characters/enemies the abliilty to shadow-meld at night, and be rendered invisible unless they move or attack. Fun stuff...

I like night-time in games like DAoC, but that's just me, perhaps...

Well your line of vision is cut of dramaticly but if you mean does it affect any skills? Well I noticed even when I do have a monster in sight my mercenary cant seem to shoot his shortbow as far.

Nighttime in DAoC is punishing for me because I can't see very well, which means I have trouble navigating the world, which means I often can't play unless I'm camped at a monster spawn site. They really need to lighten it up a bit. It's just not fun when you take a dozen steps and get lost. Combining nighttime with rain is even worse for visibility. What does rain accomplish?

You do know about 't' for torch right?

I have PowerStrip installed and have the gamma hotkeyed so I can turn it up and down as I need it. During night cycles I tend to turn up the gamma a few notches to be able to see easier then adjust it back to normal during the day. It works pretty well.

I know about torch, but how do I adjust gamma? I looked but never saw that control in the game.

Honestly, if I'm in Campo Forest at night I don't even bother to play. I can't see. On the plains of Salisbury I can do ok at night, but anywhere with trees and I'm screwed.

And the point Jeff was getting at is what does this add to the game? Nothing, really. It could be much lighter and still be nighttime in DAoC for mood purposes.

Night would work a lot better if it weren't so frustrating, I agree -- but I think there are good design reasons to have day/night cycles. Since DAOC can get so monotonous at times, this day/night division could add new considerations (other than getting pissed off at the game).

I think it's a bad design decision to impose handicaps on the player through actual physical means, like making it hard for him to see or making the joystick less responsive or whatever. If what Doug said about bow range being shorter at night is true, this is an example of the right way to approach handicaps: make the avatar suffer, not the player.

I was in Campacorentin Forest one time and realized all of a sudden that it was getting dark. Since I was in a place that probably was a bit too dangerous for my current level, I started to get concerned about making it back to Caer Ulfwych before I stumbled upon some wood ogre or whatever in the dark. Then I realized that I could just log out, log back in in a few minutes, and it would be daytime. Problem solved.

When I thought about it later, I realized that the feeling of "uh-oh" that I momentarily had was kind of neat. I would be nice if the game could induce more of these moments through real-life analogs like "it's getting dark." If they made the game world brighter at night (so you could see without running some crazy gamma-adjustment utility) and made you less likely to hit, maybe increased monster aggro range, and put out scarier monsters (read: worth more xp) that only came out at night, you'd have a whole new thing to consider in a game that, for long stretches, focuses on the critical decision-making of when to hit [F6]. Players could decide whether potential for bigger xp gains at night was worth the extra danger, what with their reduced combat capabilities. Maybe some races could be exempt from nighttime penalties. Like elves or something. I hear they're good at that.

Anyway, I like the idea of day/night, but DAOC makes the mistake of trying to make a game device immersive in and of itself instead of making it "immersive" through clever use of game mechanics.

Btw, I could be wrong about that elf thing. Some friend of mine just told me that's what they're like. I wouldn't know about that.

I like day and night cycles too, and even the rain has its place. It's just too dark in DAoC. I played EQ and if you had infravision in that game night time was still dark but you could see well enough to play.

"It's just too dark in DAoC"

I have no problem seeing in DAOC at night. In fact, I notice very little difference between day and night in the game. Perhaps it's my monitor settings, but I find both equally playable.

-Ron

"I have no problem seeing in DAOC at night. In fact, I notice very little difference between day and night in the game. Perhaps it's my monitor settings, but I find both equally playable."

Thats my experience too. It could be a monitor thing because my vision is pretty horrible too.

Maybe it is my monitor, except DAoC is the only game where I have this problem.

"I have no problem seeing in DAOC at night."

It's all downhill after EQ's nighttimes!

Nighttime in DAoC for me is like nighttime in EQ if playing a race without infravision. I remember playing an Erudite wizard up to level 6 in EQ and simply not being able to play that character at night in the forest. DAoC is like that for me as well.

Dulin: "I have no problem seeing in DAOC at night."

Well, I guess that means that for you, the nighttime IS THE RIGHT TIME!

I must say my appreciation for all of the many thoughts here.

In the game that is in Hiberia there was a charcater with the name of Vainamoinen, who as some of you will know is the national hero of Finland! It excited me thinking of the way which Mythic company pays tribute to my country about this, so I asked this character about how he was named because his spelling was not exactly the right way. Alass he perhaps did not understand the thing of what I was telling to him. It is not his fault I am sure, and I am not disappointed.

If any persons here have answer of this question, please post so we may enjoy it more!

Greetz

>I have no problem seeing in DAOC at night. In fact, I notice very little difference between day and night in the game. Perhaps it's my monitor settings, but I find both equally playable.

That's my experience as well. In fact, I often type /time just to confirm whether it is night, to go hunt (or avoid) some of the nocturnal creatures. Mark - try adjusting your monitor settings.

I like the inclusion of day/night and weather (wish there was snow). I'd prefer it if it didn't rain every 30 minutes just for the heck of it, and weather patterns were more realistic (no raining for a few days, etc.) Hell, I'd prefer if the weather perfectly mimicked Finland's glorious climate.

"wish there was snow"

There is! Just go up to the snowy places. Like Snowdonia. Or Snowtown. I think it's rare, but it does snow.

-Ron

"The only problem with the frontier lands is that you can't bind anywhere near them."

Old quote, new response.

But you can bind at places that have horse rides. For instance - bind at Ludlow for Sauvage, or Humberton for Snowdonia. Sauvage has no healer (which is a drag) but for 5 sp you have a pretty quick trip back to the frontier.

-Ron

And a very belated correction - I meant Ludlow has no healer.

-Ron

Not every frontier land has a horse ride to it. Sauvage does, but not that frontier land near the wargs and goblins in Snowdonia.

>There is! Just go up to the snowy places. Like Snowdonia

Wow. I'm such a noob.

I do love Camelot though. I'm not sure I'll play another game the rest of the year, uh, other than a couple of games I'm reviewing, which I'm playing now.

Stefan

Stefan, I know what you mean about DAOC. It has me completely in it's clutches. Quarter to three? No way, lets try quarter to seven in the morning probably 3 times in 3 weeks (all on weekends, I do still have to get to work). I thought EQ was bad but it is nothing compared to this. Even my wife is playing it a ton (17th and 13th level characters) and she doesn't play these kind of games.

It does snow in Snowdonia now and then; it just never sticks.

Midgard -- now there's a land with some snow on the ground!

"Not every frontier land has a horse ride to it. Sauvage does, but not that frontier land near the wargs and goblins in Snowdonia."

I don't think that's a frontier land - isn't that Llyn Barfog? If it is, it's close enough to Snowdonia Station that it isn't too much of a hike. But you may be talking about someplace I've yet to go.

-Ron

Llyn Barfog it is -- are you sure it's not a frontier land? The NPC merchants are hostile.

It's easily at least a five minute jog from Snowdonia Station just to the border, and then you might be hunting somewhere farther in. I've died in there several times so I know that it's something of a pain not having a bind point nearby.

If it isn't a frontier land, then there's absolutely no excuse for not having a bind point in Llyn Barfog.

I am pretty sure Llyn Barfog is a frontier land -- I think that accounts for the lack of a bind point. At www.daatlas.com it's listed in red as a frontier land. So is Lyonesse. Who knew?

Ah. I thought the fronier lands were the places beyond the keeps - Sauvage forest, for instance, and the huge area beyond Snowdonia Keep. Places not on the map, basically. Perhaps I was mistaken.

-Ron

"I thought the fronier lands were the places beyond the keeps - Sauvage forest, for instance, and the huge area beyond Snowdonia Keep."

You may be right. What the Hell do I know, anyway. Having the frontier lands be beyond the keeps makes sense, because otherwise enemy players could just walk from Llyn Barfog to N Black Mountains and start killing low-level players around Snowdonia Station. If they're restricted to Forest Sauvage or Snowdonia, they'd have to capture one of those big keeps to go on a real rampage in Albion. So that makes more sense.

When we went on a PvP vs. Hibernia a while back, the guy leading us around said that we were able to get to a Hib "Newbie area" because we had captured one of those frontier keeps. I should just stop pretending to understand what happens in the PvP land. I always die there, anyway.

I know enemies can get into Forest Sauvage, because I got ganked there.

Llyn Barfog seems to be rebelling against Camelot rule, which may explain the hostile merchants.

Wow. Hey, guys, don't look now, but I think DAoC has done something no game has done to this level before. It's created a world so real, that you guys are talking about it like it's a real place. This conversation goes above and beyond "regular game talk," I think.

Cool.

"I think DAoC has done something no game has done to this level before. It's created a world so real, that you guys are talking about it like it's a real place"

You should know, that the place in the game is the lands of Lord Arther, which is one of the neverplaces, of the stories, so who could make it real? In Finland we have stories too, only sometimes they are more real and Barfogs! I hear it is very good though, so soon I will try playing, at least in the demo scene.

When it is the time to make the games real, it is true it is good when it happens. I know you are the ones who already know that I will say, Max Payne is real and crisp. To me, it is realer than when there are swords. If you are happy though, that is good too!

Greetz..