"You've seen best game lists. You've seen worst game lists. You've seen dubious achievement lists and you've seen surprise lists. If you're one of W's confidants, you've seen short lists of cabinet appointments. If you're one of Al's friends, you've seen lists of good vacation spots. You may have even recently rented Schindler's List. We're a bit tired of lists, so we went for a simpler list that didn't require us to make a lot of value judgments. We asked PC Data to give us the hard numbers on the software sales of PC games. So here they are, PC Data's bestselling games for the year through the end of October."

You've seen best game lists. You've seen worst game lists. You've seen dubious achievement lists and you've seen surprise lists. If you're one of W's confidants, you've seen short lists of cabinet appointments. If you're one of Al's friends, you've seen lists of good vacation spots. You may have even recently rented Schindler's List. We're a bit tired of lists, so we went for a simpler list that didn't require us to make a lot of value judgments. We asked PC Data to give us the hard numbers on the software sales of PC games.So here they are, PC Data's bestselling games for the year through the end of October.

http://www.quartertothree.com/features/pcdata_top_10/years_bestsellers.shtml

Comments?

What I'm wondering about is Diablo II's sales numbers. I had heard all this stuff about it selling "two million copies before it hit the shelves". Were the rest of the sales overseas, or was that number (2M) just B.S.?

Blizzard probably had a sell-in of two million worldwide. PC Data's figures don't include overseas, Blizzard direct sales, and lots of niche stores that aren't monitored by PC Data.

That's one thing I'd like to know. How do you find out the total sales for a product? Like worldwide sales?

Marcus

I just wish Chris Sawyer had an original idea once in a while. The very successful Rollercoaster Tycoon, I believe, is a blatant Theme Park1 rip-off. It also looks like his much ballyhooed next game, can't remember the name of it right now, borrows generously from TA Kingdoms.

"How do you find out the total sales for a product? Like worldwide sales?"

Good question. You probably can't. It's probably something only the game company knows and they tend to not divulge info like this.

What i kinda find interesting is that alot of the top 10 games (the sims, rollercoaster tycoom, sim city) are all "mundane games" where you don't kill anybody. . . plus alot of them are simulations. . .

just wait till sims online is released. . . oh boy. ..

etc

btw, what was the sims doing on a episode of Drew Carey?!?

etc

"What i kinda find interesting is that alot of the top 10 games (the sims, rollercoaster tycoom, sim city) are all "mundane games" where you don't kill anybody. . . plus alot of them are simulations. . ."

Yeah, they obviously are games that some people will buy who won't even look at wargames, shooters, hack and slash games, etc.

"just wait till sims online is released. . . oh boy..."

This could be the first million-subscriber game if the pricing is right. Will Wright is going to make a mega fortune. Heck, if they'd let me play as a superhero character, they could even draw me in. I'd like to fly around the city and stop bank robberies. Heh.

So what DID Daikatana do in sales for '2000?

another idea is to do a feature on those games that sold a million copies...if any...aren't unreal, doom in that pack?

Daikatana? Not sure, but we may look into that. It didn't make the top 250 list we were given from PC Data, and number 250 was MS Pinball Arcade which sold 46,293 copies.

As I recall, it sold like crap when it first came out, and that's when games normally do their highest volume. It's just a poisoned name.

Heh -- Ion Storm was projecting sales of 2.5 million at one point. I guess the air is thin way up in those penthouse offices they have.

Btw what does a typical PS2, DC or Nintendo game sell? I've heard numbers like 2-3 million copies.

Marcus

Any idea on how black isle games did? (in relation to the top ten) That's one company/division I'd hate to see fold (even though they seem to be doing okay)

daikatana - poisoned name...you are spot on on that point. thank god ion has warren spector and tom hall. the idea of thief 3 using current tech has me twitching in all the right places. and of course there is deus ex 2.
i also remember during an interview mark rein saying something like UT was approaching the same sales status as unreal.....so its the status quo to pump your #s.

is anyone surprised UT didn't sell more? I am.

Well, a typical PS2 game can't sell more than 1 million right now in the US due to Sony's inability to get systems on the shelf (cue laugh track).

Console games on an established console with a large installed base such as Playstation or N64 will do in excess of 1 million copies for a hit game. By comparison, I believe a game is considered a major success if it sells more than 100,000 for the PC. However given the different costs involved (licensing and manufacturing are different on consoles), the PC can afford games that sell less but cost the same to make as a similar console release.

The Dreamcast's biggest hits are doing in excess of 500,000 pieces each I think.

Don't get hung up on these numbers though. It's nice to know what games are successful, but he who reads into them will find himself with another Daikatana on his hands. Sales success today doesn't often translate into either quality OR sales success tomorrow. A successful game isn't always a great game IMO.

--Dave

I think Red Alert 2 should have been on that list

Seems allright, may of the games were expected. But I missed Deus Ex, RA2 and Project IGI, they are great games.

The list was of the bestselling titles, not the best games. Believe me, Regis would never make our lists otherwise.

Daikatana sold a little over 20,000 copies...gosh, i wonder, why...

What about Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate 2? I remember both of these games charting fairly high on PC Data when they were released. I'm surprised that Baldur's Gate 2 didn't make the top 10 of the year, considering its predecessor was one of the top selling games the year it was released.

wasnt UT suppose to be #1 =)
m-m-m-m-monstatatatata kill!!!

Well, The Sims and Rollercoaster Tycoon were on the charts all year long. It's no surprise they ended up high on the list.

BG2 came out a bit late to make our list, which stopped with the end of October. It came out in mid-September. It did well, but not as well as the first game. I think a lot of gamers were a bit tired of the Infinity engine. We had BG, the BG expansion, Planescape, Icewind Dale, and then BG2. The PC Data numbers we have for it are 89,540 copies sold for $4,169,946. Don't forget that Interplay also sold quite a few copies direct that aren't counted in this, including the more expensive Collector's Edition.

Who much sold Deus Ex? =)
Can you see the whole list???

Hagge,

On the list we have (sales through October for the year 2000), Deus Ex did fairly well: 100,000 copies raking in about $4 million. It sits at #35 in terms of money made.

Bleah. :)

-Tom

I'm curious, and I know it's a little late. But how is sacrifice, Giants (Citizen Kabuto) and Alice in Wonderland doing? There great games and I hope that they each sell well! Also, I tried to access PC data, just to find out the sales figures on some of the games. I wasn't able to! Do you need an account to access the sales figures on PC data? How would you go about doing that? Thanks!

"But how is sacrifice, Giants (Citizen Kabuto) and Alice in Wonderland doing?"

Benjamin,

Those titles are all pretty new. We should be hearing more about their retail performance soon.

"Also, I tried to access PC data, just to find out the sales figures on some of the games. I wasn't able to!"

I believe they're like a subscription service with a prohibitively high price. They make some of their coarser figures publically available and they'll give some stuff to press, but I'm pretty sure they make their money selling data to companies.

Is that right, Mark?

-Tom

Yeah, you need a subscription to see all their numbers.

This is pretty interesting but I need to ask, was this a slow year for the PC gamung market? What are your thoughts on the "dying PC gaming market"? Are we doomed to play console ports and RTS look alikes cause lets face it the consoles I fell will dictate how PC games are developed! And finally, I saw the x-box and even though I am excited about Microsoft's game console I am also a little worried cause this system has the potential to destroy the PC gaming market! I used to think the PS2 had a chance, but I don't see many PC developers jumping on the PS2 band wagon, but when we talk about the X-box I see boatlaods of PC game developers jumping on board! What gets me is how can a PC developer automatically think that there game is going to sell millions just because it's on a console? I know that there are more people that game on a console, but console and PC people have very different gaming habits! Look at UT for the PS2. How many copies did they sell? I bet it wasn't to many. Look at black and white. I bet when thats released it won't sell to well on the PS2 (yea, I know there player base is much bigger than the PC's player base) cause I fell that the PS2 owners wont go for that type of game! It's a PC game!!!! Sorry about the long rant, but I had to say what was on my mind!! BTW, this site rocks and hopefully you will be here for a very long time!

Benjamin, I'm also a bit worried about the PC market. I do feel that as long as people use PCs, there's a market for PC games. My worry is that the PC will end up getting a lot of console ports. The PC is not good at console style games like beat'em ups and third-person action games.

I think the FPS and RTS markets are safe for the PC. I'm not sure about the rest.

The only thing I disagree with in this article is what was said about Simcity 3000:

"Sim City 3000 is tired and clunky, the sort of thing that
people who don't know any better will buy in droves. It's clearly the product a development process that went on too long
and suffered a few too many refits. We prefer Sim City 2000's crisp engine and cleaner gameplay, but the series must go
on. "

I thought it was great; they updated Simcity 2000 in all the right places by removing some of the tedium and increasing the gameplay.

Simcity 3000 is perhaps nothing more than a better version of Simcity 2000 IMO, but that's not a bad thing.

Needless sequals? Well, Simcity 3000 Unlimited, which probably should have at least been an expansion.

Well im gald to see that a real game was at the top of the list this year. Instead of who wants to be a Millionare or Barbie Nail Design.

The X-box will come and dominate the interactive entertainmaent industry for a year or so or maybe it will be Game Cube or Indrema. It matters not the result will be the same the next year the developers will come crawling back the the PC like they always do. I dont like talk of platforms or genere's dieing because they always seem to bounce back twithin the next few years. I remember when RPG's where dead, TBS's were dead, even RTS's were dead for a while but all going strong today.

Hey do you guys know the figures yet on NOLF, Sacrifice, Giants and Alice? Giants was a dissapointment but Sacrifice and NOLF were awesome! Haven't played alice yet. I hope these games did well, so PC game developers don't find more excuses to leave the PC. And PC data only tells half of the sales right? So if PC data reports that a game sold 150,000 copies, in reality it sold 300,000 copies? Am I right on this? Thxs!

None of those games you mentioned cracked the weekly top ten as I recall, so I doubt any of them sold great.

The rule of thumb seems to be to double PC Data numbers to get worldwide sales. I've heard a couple of publishers say this. Obviously not every game follows this. Settlers sold really well in Germany and not so hot here, for example.

Your right, none of these games broke through the top ten. I saw an article that stated that PC games outsold console games this year, but if you look at the list it's the same games (AOE, Sims, frogger etc..) and I think these games are making the majority of the money. It looks like it's being split between the have and have nots. Oh well, at least Dues Ex did well. But even then if you look at that game, the majority of people to buy that game were mostly hardcore PC gamers and the rest of the buying public let it pass so they could pick up frogger or millionare. One question, PC games are made for less money, when compared to console games, right? So the pressure isn't that great to sell a million copies? So how many copies (on average) do companies need to sell to start showing a profit? Interesting stuff! thanks for info.

"So how many copies (on average) do companies need to sell to start showing a profit?"

I read an article in PC Gamer once that said a game that sells 100,000 copies is considered a Success, and 250,000 is considered a major hit (read: expect a sequel within 6 months). I'm not sure if those numbers still hold true.

I would suspect that a lot is going to depend on the size of the development firm and the take of the publisher though. The smaller the developer, the higher the per-sale profit (in general).

Here's a year-old Usenet post I saved from Joel Mathis, who contributes to Gone Gold. It does a good job of breaking down how good general sales figures are. I presume Joel won't mind me quoting his post here.

"100,000 is a decent seller. Good enough to ponder a sequel if you can crank one out fast that uses the same technology, at least. This is roughly the break even point for minor titles that didn't cost much to produce."

"500,000 is profitable for just about any game, with the exception of certain titles that have infamously high costs. A title that has probably been in the top ten sellers for a couple of months will probably be in this range of sales. This is usually the about what a hot game sells in a year, though some titles can have a long shelf life."

"1,000,000 is an incredible seller. Only a handful of titles each year surpass this mark. A REALLY hot game might sell this many copies in it's life time."

"Beyond that level are the extreme ranges that there just aren't enough games that sell that many copies to talk about them as a group. Myst, Deer Hunter, and Starcraft (thanks to ludicrously high Korean sales of just a hair under a million last year) are all in this range."

I just read that even though NOLF didn't reach the top ten, Fox interactive is quite pleased with the sells so far, and they predict that NOLF will continue to sell very well. Hopefully sacrifice and giants did well even though both games didn't crack the top ten! I have one other question. Does the european market sell more PC game titles than the U.S.? It seems that there are titles that don't sell well, but when there released over in europe the sells are much better. thxs!

In general, from what I've been told, European games sell better in Europe than they do over here and vice versa.

As to which market is bigger, I think the US is still bigger.

Sure, that makes sense. Cater to your audience, and the like...

Actually, I believe Europe, as a whole, is bigger than the US primarily due to the voracious gaming appetites of the Germans and English.

NOLF is apparently doing extremely well in Europe (which may or may not be due to Electronic Arts being their distributor as opposed to Fox). It's steady in the US, and the awards its winning and the reviews its received are surely helping. They'll probably re-launch it with more of the awards hype and try to drive sales up even further into the year.

sure hope NOLF gets the kudos n all. . . it was really a fun game. better than Deus Ex imo, i replay NOLF more than i do Deus Ex.

imo, europe looks like an "old school" bastion of pc gaming. . . i mean what with some of the games coming out of there. . . ie Serious Sam (action), that Journey game (adventure), Sea Dogs (rpg/Strat), Evil Islands(rpg). . .uhm you name it. . . there just seems to be a ton of European developers working on pc games. i like that. what with alot of american developers thinking the ps2 is the holy grail . .. at least from my perspective that is. . .

etc

>imo, europe looks like an "old school" bastion of pc gaming. . .

This is sort of ironic, if you ask me. I remember back when the European stuff, pardon my French, pun intended, was utter crap. I wouldn't call it "old school" so much as "core" gaming.

>what with alot of american developers thinking the ps2 is the holy grail . .. at least from my perspective that is. . .

I'm thinking "X-Box."

- Alan

I think that Diablo was definitley the best game of the year even though it didnt sell as many copies as the simms which iv almost never heard of. On the other hand i always hear people talk about Diablo 2

play on Diablo 2 and msg me, my characters are poofaze and slapme

i have a level 48 barbarian and i wanna see if you can mach my power . i am only 13 though so i am not that good i just play alot:) I used to play diablo one alot but i raelly sucked at it. i am really good at number 2. my damages is like 130 to 249 and my defence is like 2700. My name is Dagoren or Lord Dagoren. when ever you are on b-net try and msg me. i am trying to find someone that knows as much about diablo 2 as i do. OH ya and poofaze and slapme i will try and get you:)

Hey mark its me again , the guy with the barbarian.it has been ten minutes since the last letter i put on here .:)
i just wanted to say that i have no clue what your guys are or what lvl they are...
i would play but i cant right now my b-net is screwed up so i cant play:(
when it is working again i will try to look for you.
i live in Canada and it is saterday.
put another msg so i can hear from you and if i reply message back:)

David, Mark Decourcy posted his message back on February 25. If you click on his name, you can send him a direct email and maybe set up a game that way.

thank you mark i would not have thought of clicking on the name. i was wondering if you play diablo??

I am the guy that had a lvl 48 barbarian . Now he is lvl 55

"I am the guy that had a lvl 48 barbarian . Now he is lvl 55"

So can you still play the first act and get XP at that level?

can someone pls tell me where i can find unit sales for the best action,adventure,speed game??????i dont want to know abt the strategy games as i am more into the aforesaid genres........
pls help me
mads

Mads, I don't think there is a place with unit sales. PC Data keeps track, sort of, but they don't publicize their data beyond weekly and monthly lists.

PC Gamer had a lengthy article summarizing year 2000 sales a while back I think; alas they don't have any sort of online archive of print edition stuff.

Someone should also point out that Unit Sales does not in any way consistently indicate Quality of the Game since a lot of tremendously crappy games with $19.95 prices have sold like crazy. But, I won't point that out. :)

What I'd rather see are some lists of the best reviewed games. CGW does this a little bit (they show how some big games were rated by the top remaining print gaming mags) but it would be nice if I could see at a glance 20 different sites' rankings for Black and White, for example, linked to the full reviews (I'm not one of those "I just look at the % and stars cause I don't like big words." :)

Gamerankings.com has a system like that

Very cool. Thanks! :)

Besides Gamerankings, the Gold Guide at Gone Gold is very helpful when you want to read up about a game.

hey mark !!! it is me the guy with the barbarian!!!
i havent went to this site for ages...
i can go on b.net now and i am lvl 59 now.
no, i can get experiance on act 1
though i can in hell or nightmare. i am don the game:)

Speaking of Diablo 2. I installed a mod called Cold Fusion for D2 and so far it is pretty interesting. It is more challenging, they changed the skill trees around and changed the experience that you get for each kill. You level faster but you get access to skills at higher levels. The monsters are also much tougher at all levels.

Some of the other changes are the inventory and stash size are both increased substantially, you can buy mana potions at the store, and some new skills/spells have been added. Check out the website for a more complete set of changes. It has made D2 fun again, at least for a while.

-- Xaroc