"The X-COM lineage, the Gollop brothers, turn-based combat, getting to save the earth by laying some smack down on the aliens � it's all good, isn't it? Freedom Ridge is surely at the top of the most wanted list of strategy game fans."

Thoughts?

Netimmerse! The Game engine of Freedom! (Ridge and Force, that is). What do people know about this engine? I've heard now several times of games in development with it... Does it power any released products? It seems like it must be the engine of choice for deformable terrain. Is it particularly suited for this sort of thing?

NetImmerse powers Battle Isle Andosia. We have an "Early Hours" piece about it -- click on that tab and scroll to the bottom. You can see some screens there. You can also download a demo.

It's a nice engine, and I think the deformable terrain thing is one of its big draws.

Isn't Totally Games using the NetImmerse engine for ST: Bridge Commander, too?

I was so glad to see this review. Over the last few months, there have been NO updates for this game on the web, but I found several "ongoing" sites and reports which should have been updated but hadn't - since mid-2000!! I was really beginning to worry that this game had died and that I just hadn't seen the epitaph on Blue's News or PCGamer. The first X-COM rocked like nothing since and I'm really looking forward to a chance to recapture that magic.

Maybe it's a good thing that teher hasn't been any updates or news about the game, I think all the games of 2K was hyped to death. Like Diablo 2 & Tiberian Sun.

Mike, I'm sure the game is in good hands. It's just that it's a big game for Mythos and I'm sure they want to get it right. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see it until the Fall or later.

They're also doing a PS2 version, so there's no telling how that is affecting the development. I talked to an unrelated developer who's working on a PC title that's also getting developed for the PS2, and he told me the PS2 was a "nightmare" to code for.

I have been looking at this game for a long
time as well. X-Com was easily one of my favorite
games. Heck, last week my and three friends got
together to play it over break. (We like to divide
up our soldiers into squads of 4, then each of us
commands a different squad on missions. See which
Squad does best, etc.) It's sort of like having a
Co-op multiplayer version. Whichever persons squad
has the
highest ranking officer, gets to command the
overall base building and mission launch control.
Nothing beats hearing your friends scream for help
as their squads are decimated by snakemen and Cal
assaults, then you realise your squadie is the new
highest rank, and your in command now. Ok...
pity us now. But it IS fun.

Anyway, two things have annoyed me so far about
the development of this game. The first is the
fact that the PS2 release will be way before the
PC one. I have a PS2... but I don't feel a X-Com
type game is a good play on a console system with
no harddrive (yet) and no mouse standard. I fear
the game will be lacking because of this.

The other item is the first person aiming mode.
Huh? The troops aim.. based on % accuracy. Don't
they? Why are we aiming? If it's only to select
which creature to target, then that's fine. But I
don't want my aim to have anything to do with how
my trooper shoots. That is what stats are for.

If the post came out a little strange... sorry.
I'm at home for MLK on my sisters strange little
IMAC

Scott, that's an interesting way you play X-COM with your friends! Did you know that a fellow named Scott Jones has come up with a multiplayer mod for the game? It's a bit awkward (and I've never tried it), but you can play X-COM vs. the aliens. His mods have also fixed some bugs in game, implemented some new ship designs, and more.

I don't have a URL handy, though. :(

I agree with you about the aiming. The first-person mode might be neat from a dramatic perspective, but please still give me the percenatage chance to hit.

About the PS2, well, damn that console to hell. :)

X-COM was ported to the PSX but I never tried it. Did anyone play that version?

Dreamland may be delayed ! www.maximumdreamland.com is reporting it's likely , based on an interview done with the Gollops. PSX2 version is still likely due this year, with PC in early 2001, but this is not confirmed officialy yet !

X-Com on psx was ok, but slow on the joypad, and slow to get around the controls and buttons.

I've been following Dreamland for ages too and I don't believe you actually fire by using the first person aiming, it's just there so you can see easily if the shot you need to make is worth making. I believe the shot will be succeful or not based on your stats and the terrain etc which is good news.

"I've been following Dreamland for ages too and I don't believe you actually fire by using the first person aiming, it's just there so you can see easily if the shot you need to make is worth making. I believe the shot will be succeful or not based on your stats and the terrain etc which is good news."

Yeah, but what I want is for the game to give me simple feedback in the form of a percentage chance to hit. I don't want to have to eyeball a shot and guess at my chances.

I agree.

I have played a X-com mod called X-COM 2000,
which allowed for multiplayer combat. I think it
really was a rebuild from scratch, just using the
tileart from X-Com. It's in early development
though, and still has a long way to go. Sorry, I
don't have the URL handy on this computer. I
haven't seen anything with new ship mods, but
would be interested. If you can dig up the link
let me know.

This brings up and interesting question though,
is Dreamland offering any kind of Multiplayer?
Honestly, if it plays like X-Com I won't care- but
it would be nice to see somethin

Here's the link to the X-COM Util page.

http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/stjones/xcomutil/

I bought X-Com for the PSX in 1995; it was the first game I bought for my console, before I owned a PC. I played through that thing 5 times on Veteran, I was so riveted. It *was* slower with the gamepad, but I played so much it became second nature. And it somehow felt more solid than the PC version I played later, but that's probably nostalgia clouding my vision.

Funnly enough, I and a friend would split up our squaddies like Scott did, and it was a lot of fun (especially because my friend is easily spooked -- I remember him yelping in terror the first time we used a phosphorus round to set fire to a wheatfield at night, which illuminated a sectoid staring blankly at us like something out of Children of the Corn. "Kill it! Kill it!"). It sounds like Scott's pals had a better system and were more dedicated than my erstwhile bughunting companion.

Y'know, I have to say that I don't know if 3D will be such a blessing for Freedom Ridge. Though a fixed viewing angle has its limitations, it also creates a consistency that can add to immersion. I love Combat Mission, but the ability to freely rotate and zoom kind of disengages you from the action... you assume more of an omniscient role. Anyone agree with that vague notion?

"Y'know, I have to say that I don't know if 3D will be such a blessing for Freedom Ridge. Though a fixed viewing angle has its limitations, it also creates a consistency that can add to immersion. I love Combat Mission, but the ability to freely rotate and zoom kind of disengages you from the action... you assume more of an omniscient role. Anyone agree with that vague notion?"

That's interesting. I find shifting camera views annoying, so maybe my annoyance is related in small part to what you say above.

Your wheatfield anecdote is funny. X-COM really had an ability to inspire memorable moments. I remember getting spooked many times by Chrysalids. Man, what a great game! I just don't understand why Hasbro Interactive just doesn't do a SVGA facelift. They could just redo the art and touch up the code and easily sell 100,000 copies, I bet.

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I just don't understand why Hasbro Interactive just doesn't do a SVGA facelift. They could just redo the art and touch up the code and easily sell 100,000 copies, I bet.

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"I just don't understand why Hasbro Interactive just doesn't do a SVGA facelift. They could just redo the art and touch up the code and easily sell 100,000 copies, I bet."

They could have done that if they had been quick about it; but at the time when DOS was still a viable platform, they were busy releasing the other two X-COM games so they weren't ignoring the franchise. But simply touching up the code wouldn't do it today. A new X-COM would have to run under Windows 9x/ME and preferably under Windows 2000 as well, so it would have to use DirectX for *all* input and output. That's a complete rewrite, not a touch-up.

The actual "gameplay code" that could be left more or less intact is a tiny fraction of such a game. Every hobby programmer and his dog can write such tactical combat games, and they do: they are called Roguelikes, for instance. Adom is a hundred times as complex as Diablo 2. No problem if you can accept ASCII graphics. SE4 was likewise the work of one guy with some help for the graphics (such as there are) -- but would you really want a spreadsheet version of X-COM? Maybe you would but it sure wouldn't sell 100K copies.

Most of the tedious and expensive programming work in commercial games goes into interface, presentation, all kinds of communication with the very complex Windows operating system, and multiplayer support (not sure if the original X-COM had any MP options but reviewers would eviscerate a new X-COM if it didn't have them).

And of course, you'd have to redo the entire artwork for an SVGA update. Not too cheap either if you expect mass-market standards. Maybe create a few high-quality full-motion videos as well to impress the retailers... after all you want to sell 100K copies, not just the 10K max that an Internet shop would give you, right?

Releasing an updated X-COM might give you a better sales potential due to the franchise name but it wouldn't be any less work or expenses than writing an all-new game. I do agree with you and Dave that there are big names waiting to be exploited but the investment isn't so small as to guarantee a profit.

I think Mark was more of referring to "touch up" as making a game with the exact same features and gameplay as the original. Strait down the board- just with new Technology.

__________________________________________
"not sure if the original X-COM had any MP options but reviewers would eviscerate a new X-COM if it didn't have them)."
__________________________________________

You haven't played the original X-Com? My lord man! Go out and buy it! It's only like $9, and it's worth a lifetime of memories.

Scott

"You haven't played the original X-Com? My lord man! Go out and buy it! It's only like $9, and it's worth a lifetime of memories."

I did play it, got it from the Hasbro X-COM collection. I wasn't too impressed and didn't play it for long, though. I'm not a big fan of squad-based games anyway, and the game was just too *old*. Stone-age graphics and an arcane interface that basically requires reading the manual before you start playing. That's also why I think that they'd have to revise the game extensively if they were to release a new version.

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an arcane interface that basically requires reading the manual before you start playing.

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"Heaven forfend. :-/"

Heh, well, call me spoilt but I did get used to standard interfaces with things like fly-over help and context menus in the past five or six years. I don't expect to actually win a game without reading the manual but I do expect to get started playing just by intuition and in-game feedback. If a game can't do that it has an interface problem as far as I'm concerned.

Mind you, I'm asking for no more than what I get with any modern application or development software, and this stuff is usually much more complex than any game.

I remember being a bit perplexed by the interface in X-COM, but it didn't take too long to learn it. That was back in the DOS days, when every game had its own way of doing things.

I got an interview coming up with the Xcom people at Microprose, I'll ask them if a face life update was never considered for the original Xcom and if not why not. After all, the game was ported to win 95/98/me for the collection. Such a project shouldn't take that long and make them a few coins.

Looking at the Dreamland Q&A this caughts my eye. "We are working on the PS2 version first because this is the most difficult to do - the requirements are much more stringent in terms of memory usage and frame rate. Then we will build the PC engine and interface." Translation, we are doing the ps2 version first then we will port it after we have finished it. And may I add probably after they ship it as well. My prediction that we were going to learn how Mac owners feel is coming true..

Baron Calamity -- www.moonbasetycho.com

"Looking at the Dreamland Q&A this caughts my eye. "We are working on the PS2 version first because this is the most difficult to do - the requirements are much more stringent in terms of memory usage and frame rate. Then we will build the PC engine and interface." Translation, we are doing the ps2 version first then we will port it after we have finished it. And may I add probably after they ship it as well. My prediction that we were going to learn how Mac owners feel is coming true.. "

Yep, this sounds like a bad, bad idea. How many PS2 owners are going to want a game like that anyway? It's hardly an action extravaganza. Oh well.

They are using the netimmerse engine for the PC though, so it's not like they have to write one from scratch.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

The whole thing is screwy. Maybe they're deliberately delaying it because the installed base of PS2 owners isn't that big right now?

A Dreamland team member answered one of my posts on the Dreamland forum

Baron: The delay and the explanation sounds like this to me. "We are creating a console game. We when are done and have shipped the console version we will begin to work on the PC port. When the pc version ships much much later don't expect a pc game. It will be a console game, with console controls, console save points, and console low resolution graphics. However we will make sure its slower, has a massive install footage, and is unstable with common hardware." I know you haven't said any of this but that's what I'm hearing thanks to 15 years of ultra weak console ports to the pc. I think a lot of other PC owners are hearing the same thing.

Dean Calver : I'm surprised that the PC version is the one in question as all previous titles have been non-console based. Were trying to bring a PC style game on a console, I wouldn't worry about it not being PC enough. It has its own interface and control systems, it own set of graphics, sound systems etc. If anything the extra quality PS2 games have to have should mean lower memory requirements and less bugs.
Dean Calver
Lead Programmer (PS2)
Opinions are my own not Mythos Games Ltd.


Baron Calamity -- www.moonbasetycho.com

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If anything the extra quality PS2 games have to have should mean lower memory requirements and less bugs.

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Hell, if they're not going to have Dreamland out until the fall, they should just ditch the PS2 version and do an Xbox port. That's supposed to be trivial.

I just don't understand what business Dreamland Chronicles has even EXISTING on the Playstation 2. I mean, it's out there. Way out there. Even on the PC the audience wouldn't be huge. But on the PS2? Miniscule.

I don't know who makes these kinds of design decisions, but whoever it is must have gone to the Don King school of game production.

wumpus http://www.gamebasement.com

Simple wumpus. Xcom I, II and III for the PSX sold huge in europe. (II & III were only released in europe) So don't rush out and buy a PS2 to play Dreamland first because, if my hunch is right, if you live in the US don't expect to see Dreamland.
Axtually Xcom was on several consoles in Europe.

Rob Merritt -- www.moonbasetycho.com

Actually, I would be more concerned with the market penetration of the PS2. The release delay certainly explains why I haven't heard much out of Mythos lately. I'm thinking sleeper hit, but it's hard to predict that sort of thing, no?